Delistings/Retirements/Trading

[Ruda Wakening]

Originally posted by omnipotent
So Reggi you would be in favour of trading Fosdike.

Hasn't Fossie already signed ?

[liz]

Originally posted by neored
The only player I've heard Sydney linked with is Bradshaw.

I'd heard Bradshaw's name linked with Geelong. Mind you, anyone who can play as a key forward has been linked to Geelong.

Can't really see that he'd be the type of player that would interest the Swans. Most of his career he's been a forward, and that is the one area of the ground that we have pretty well covered at the moment. Maybe it might be time to draft a potential key forward for when Bazza and Mickey are approaching 30 in a few years time, but at the moment it's our strongest area.

I know Bradshaw has played back for most of this season, but he seems to be more a Craig B, Leo type of player who can take the second or third forward but isn't naturally suited as a FB or CHB. And I'd rather have Leo or B2 any day.

What we need as a priority is a tall, strong defender and a couple of in-an-under midfielders. Picking up top quality players via the trade is hard to do and you often have to give up too much, unless there is a quality player who is going to leave anyway. Our best chance of picking one up is a salary cap squeeze at clubs like Brisbane, Hawthorn or Essendon. Otherwise, I reckon we just have to keep drafting and be patient.

[Snowy]

I think wholesale changes could be a big mistake but do believe we need an injection of some more talent, proven if possible to go the next step in a hurry. I wouldn't mind Fosdike being traded and the predicted delistings will take care of themselves. The talk in Melbourne is that Stevens to Pies is a done deal so I think we have to look at Brown as our cap could probably accommodate him and he's more flexible player than NS anyway. I think we need to cut Nick Davis a bit of slack as he seems to cop criticims wherever he plays and he's not such a bad player really. He's not a patch on his father as a player ( I saw Craig play with a few clubs), and I don't think his work ethic is as good, but he has been a good contributor this year under difficult circumstances and if he applies himself and has a good pre-season he may go to a level that his talent warrants. It all depends how hungry he is.

[Reggi]

Originally posted by CureTheSane
Sorry, but I don't understand the relevance of this argument.

Are you saying that these trades were/are worthless?

You pick out Brisbane and Essendon as teams that 'consistently win premierships'

Brisbane have won 2.
And I believe they inherited , what, 8 Fitzroy players.
Since 96

Mal Michael
Martin Pike
Blake Caracella
David Calthorpe
Stefan Carey
Adam Heuskes
Martin McKinnon
Brad Scott
Chris Johnson
Jarrod Molloy
John Barker
Shane Clayton
Brad Boyd
Simon Hawking
Scott Bamford
Nick Carter

Essendon don't trade much, but still have picked up the likes of

Damian Cupido
Adam McPhee
Paul Salmon
Marcus Pickett
John Barnes
Jonathon Robran
Ilija Grgic

And then we have the Crows, West Coast, Kangaroos, who have all seen success in Sept.
They trade too, but I'm not gonna list them

The Fitzroy players were part of the merger - Brisbane didn't trade or draft them - only B Scott - Pike and Michael (and a decade ago Lynch) came from other clubs.

They have 3-4 we have 7-8. Cupido and McPhee are not Premiership players.

We've done the recruiting other clubs duds thing.

Doesn't work.

I'm not saying I'd get rid of Davis - just wouldn't have given much for him (ie 1st rnd pick) given that his application is questionable. He went OK.

Wouldn't get rid of Fosdike - we cannot afford to we are so short on midfielders - just think that he can and should improve a lot.

Lizz I think you need a mix - but we are at least one strong bodied midfielder short atm

Thought hiss 2002 was better than 2003

[Steve]

The new 'trading rule' is that you can't trade a player in the first year (ie. 12 months) after signing a new contract. I assume that a contract extension is considered a new contract, but maybe that's a bit of a grey area.

All of our players that fall into the 'maybe we could trade them' category (eg. Fosdike, Stevens, Ablett etc) we aren't going to get remarkable value for, hence IMO we are way better off keeping them, putting the acid on them and helping them improve in the areas they need to.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the likes of Seymour, Warfe, Nicks etc - you get the impression Roos is keen to move on and create room for youngster players to grow into, whilst not wanting to burn 100-150 game players. Obviously existing contracts complicate things as well.

When looking at our list going forward the thing that stands out to me is the scope for improvement with almost every player (obviously veterans aside) - as long as the hunger and commitment is there hopefully the group will continue to develop together.

I guess I'm a pretty harsh judge but even with a guy like Kennelly, I watch and see how many elementary mistakes he makes - you can't blame him at all, he's still learning the game - he could conceivably be still improving the fundamentals of his game at 26, 27 ...

IMO at the end of the day you have to look at the talent coming through, and I think we are as well placed as we could reasonably expect to be with guys like LRT, Powell, McVeigh, Sundqvist, Ablett, Dempster etc basically at the very start of their careers.

Getting back to the original topic of trading etc, given our average positioning in terms of picks (ie. first one at No.15) and the fact that our 'trade possibles' won't bring in very much, I'd expect it to be a pretty quiet period for us.

The only real possibility to get any value IMO would be to offer clubs with good picks but TPP restraints (eg. Carlton, Richmond, maybe Hawthorn etc) players such as Nicks, Seymour, Warfe volunteering to pay most of their salary.

We can afford it within our TPP and get some decents picks. They get players to step straight into their senior side essentially without having to pay for them.

Although you'd have to doubt whether any club would be that stupid. The draft will be pretty thin, but perhaps not that thin.

[sharp9]

Yes, get the feeling that Nicks, Seymour, Warfe could conceivably be delisted just to free up spots. From a cap point of view it wouldn't be a problem and from a cost point of view, well it will only cost three first year salaries - $150 grand give or take...if it boosts the chance of a 2006 premiership I would think it was money well spent.

You must be able to trade a player if he agrees, otherwise it is restraint of trade. The rule is to protect players from being shafted....if Warfe were offered the choice of delisting or playing at Geelong for less money, he might take the Geelong option.

[Sanecow]

Will Brissie trade Goldspink and McLaren? We should try to pick one of them up for sure.

[CureTheSane]

Like I said before.....

Cressa
Nicks
Warfe
MacPherson
Fosdike

Fosdike is my personal pick this year, and I know many won't agree.

Talk of Davis, Stevens, MJ, Ablett, and the like is a joke IMO.

I thought we all agreed on a youth type policy?

So look at the ones mentioned above and add a couple more players.
A couple who we would consider required by the team, but Roos doesn't see fitting into our team plan as well as others.
These two players will be traded and the delistings or trades above will be used for draft picks

[undy]

Originally posted by Sanecow
Will Brissie trade Goldspink and McLaren? We should try to pick one of them up for sure.

At last a sensible comment on this thread !

It could cost us a bit, having to fly them down to training every week - I reckon they'd be allowed to train with the local umps for a couple of sessions a week though. Relocation would cost a bit, although none of this would affect our salary cap or roster numbers. It might cost too much to turn Goldspink around, he is a bit set in his ways, but McLaren could be worked on.

[neored]

Originally posted by lizz
What we need as a priority is a tall, strong defender and a couple of in-an-under midfielders. Picking up top quality players via the trade is hard to do and you often have to give up too much, unless there is a quality player who is going to leave anyway. Our best chance of picking one up is a salary cap squeeze at clubs like Brisbane, Hawthorn or Essendon. Otherwise, I reckon we just have to keep drafting and be patient.

The problem is that you'll be ranked fairly low in the preseason draft, so any uncontracted players are going to be picked up by other teams. Add that to the fact that there are a few teams with plenty of salary cap space and its made even more difficult.

I think my clubs salary cap problems are overhyped, the rumours are that Misiti will leave and Mercuri will either take a pay cut or retire altogether. James Hird will also be shifted onto the veterans list, so I dont think salary cap space will be an issue.

[CureTheSane]

Unless we offer more money.
Then the clubs below us have to match or better the offer.


In terms of Acker, should he WANT to leave for Sydney, he is the sort who would make it clear that he'd throw the game away if Sydney didn't end up with him, therefore allowing other clubs to lose interest in him.

[no1swan]

Originally posted by CureTheSane
Unless we offer more money.
Then the clubs below us have to match or better the offer.

In terms of Acker, should he WANT to leave for Sydney, he is the sort who would make it clear that he'd throw the game away if Sydney didn't end up with him, therefore allowing other clubs to lose interest in him.

On After the Game, Aka was interviewed and said that there wasn't "a hope in hell" that he'd be moving to Sydney, and "there was a better chance of Jesus coming back." He's ready to re-sign with Brisbane.

I think the leak earlier in the year that he wanted to move to Sydney was just a ploy to get more money out of Brisbane. He is after all his own manager.

[Sanecow]

I hope Aker doesn't end up with Sydney, I'd have to backflip even more than I did with Plugger and Schwatta. Of course, if it happens Aker will become an absolutely top bloke. Sydney has that effect on some players

I have heard the rumours about Jesus comeback too.

[liz]

Originally posted by no1swan
On After the Game, Aka was interviewed and said that there wasn't "a hope in hell" that he'd be moving to Sydney.

Good.

[snajik]

Originally posted by monopoly19

I don't know where the negativity towards Davis has come from

It comes from misguided perceptions. Davis' laconic style is misinterpreted as being soft, disinterested etc.

Dale Lewis suffered from this stigma as well, but you only need to watch how he performed in the 96 finals to drop that 'theory'. Lewie didn't reach 180 odd games by being useless.

Davis has added enormous flexibility to this side, and along with C bolton must be considered as two of the great recruiting coups in recent history.