Best Player Trades

[NMWBloods]

Re: Re: Re: NMWBloods

Originally posted by Ruckman
Are you really suggesting that being suspended for 4 weeks was better than being run off?
Besides Caven was't the only one to run off him.

It was a joke son...

Incidentally Tony was 6ft3in and weighed half-a-ton, this means he wasn't the worlds most gifted aerialist so the presence of a little tall timber would have been usefull.

He seemed to have no problems marking it, particularly when delivery to him was usually pretty ordinary.

[Benevolent Ert]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Tony Lockett could be a bit of a liability when the opposition ran off him.

Cast your mind back folks.

The year is 1995, the venue the SCG, the opponent the Brisbane Bears.
Richard Champion takes a mark in the Bears backline, and decides to go for a run, content in the knowledge that 'ten ton Tony' will never catch him
Champion dashes all the way to the centre circle - and then it happens....
110kg of goalkicking behemoth drags down the unwitting defender, BAAAAAAALLLLL!!!! yell the crowd as the man in white blows his whistle and Champion sheepishly hands the ball over.
That's one of my favourite moments
Another favourite was from 1998 - This time the opponent is the West Coast Eagles
It's a loose ball in the centre of the ground, when all of a sudden a massive frame bursts through the pack and gathers the ball in one motion, sprints off and drops that ball on to one of the most accurate kicking feet in history, and delivers laces out onto the chest of Wayne Schwass who converts from the set shot
Classic Tony at his best

ah the memories...

[NMWBloods]

Ah, it's good that some people don't have distorted memories...

[Plugger46]

Ruckman,

You're an idiot. How can you mention liability and Lockett in the same sentence? Plugger was an absolute worldbeater. It's a myth that he didn't create goals. He never got out-marked really, so he would either mark the footy or create the crumbs for one of the others. He was always giving off the handball, leading at full pace, and gathering the ball, in one grab, down at his boot laces. He never fumbled. For a big bloke, that is just freakish.

Full Backs always run off Full Forwards, not just off Lockett. A full back might run off Plugger and create one goal, well his bag of goals that he used to kick at will, were much more influential.

- He kicked double figures 22 times (6 more than anyone else)
- He kicked 7 goals or more 70 odd times

It's also a myth that we were one-dimensional with him there. What about Kickett, O'Brien, Grant, Mooney, Schwass, Kelly, Maxfield, O'Loughlin and the rest who were kicking goals. We were a good side in the late '90's, but mainly because of the big bloke. He used to bring others into the game.

The other thing about Lockett, is the fact that he was able to dominate games week in week out in very ordinary sides, which other Key Forwards never had/have to do.

How anyone could say he was a 'liability' at times, absolutely astonishes me. Lockett was the greatest.

[chammond]

Originally posted by Plugger46
The other thing about Lockett, is the fact that he was able to dominate games week in week out in very ordinary sides, which other Key Forwards never had/have to do.

Watching my old Swans tapes, the thing that surprised me (because I didn't realise at the time) was how many times Plugger got the Swans over the line in close matches. It happened so often that I think we took it for granted.

I also think that the superb efforts of Lockett and Kelly tended to mask the fact that the Swans had only a very average team that consistently overachieved.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by Plugger46
Ruckman,

You're an idiot.

Dear Plugger 46,
I know the anonymity of the web probably makes you feel big and safe but do try not to make personal comments!

I mean, I'm not pointing out what a myopic sycophant you are!

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Now before you bust into a poor rendition of "There's only one Tony Lockett" and sobbing "I luv yous Plugger"

Try to comprehend that

Originally posted by Plugger46
Ruckman,

It's also a myth that we were one-dimensional with him there. What about Kickett, O'Brien, Grant, Mooney, Schwass, Kelly, Maxfield, O'Loughlin and the rest who were kicking goals.

Is a self evidently incorrect statement!

You list the Swans forward options for that period and totally fail to notice no-one was over 6ft3in tall? Nor were any of them serious aerialists?

As such the forward line tended to be one dimensional, and the dimension in question was horizontal.

[mocaholic]

Originally posted by Plugger46

How anyone could say he was a 'liability' at times, absolutely astonishes me. Lockett was the greatest.

Agree. Lockett was the greatest, I have no doubt in my mind. He set the bar so high that we tend to overlook how much he dominated the league. The comparisons with Dunstall ("Hawthorn had so many other options, Saints only had Lockett") doesn't stand up for anything - it reinforces it. Nowadays someone kicks 6 goals & is BOG - Plugger kicks 6 and he wouldn't get a vote.

Went and saw Hawks v Saints, MCG 1987 when he kicked 11.9, and you could argue that he lost them the game cos he kicked four straight points in the 3rd and let the Hawks back into it. That was the day he went up in a pack against Mew, Langford & Ayres - a little bit of ticker in all of those blokes - and beat them all.

And Barrass got him up here following the Mothers Day game at the SCG vs the Saints '94 when he kicked 10 (or more?) and they came back from 8 goals down in the last. The question was asked of Barrass: "What do we do about him?" His answer was legendary, and turned the club around: "GET HIM UP HERE!!"

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by mocaholic
Agree. Lockett was the greatest, I have no doubt in my mind. He set the bar so high that we tend to overlook how much he dominated the league. The comparisons with Dunstall ("Hawthorn had so many other options, Saints only had Lockett") doesn't stand up for anything - it reinforces it. Nowadays someone kicks 6 goals & is BOG - Plugger kicks 6 and he wouldn't get a vote.

Went and saw Hawks v Saints, MCG 1987 when he kicked 11.9, and you could argue that he lost them the game cos he kicked four straight points in the 3rd and let the Hawks back into it. That was the day he went up in a pack against Mew, Langford & Ayres - a little bit of ticker in all of those blokes - and beat them all.

And Barrass got him up here following the Mothers Day game at the SCG vs the Saints '94 when he kicked 10 (or more?) and they came back from 8 goals down in the last. The question was asked of Barrass: "What do we do about him?" His answer was legendary, and turned the club around: "GET HIM UP HERE!!"

Thank you very much, absolutely spot on.

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by Ruckman
You list the Swans forward options for that period and totally fail to notice no-one was over 6ft3in tall? Nor were any of them serious aerialists?

As such the forward line tended to be one dimensional, and the dimension in question was horizontal.

I'd sware Mooney was over 6ft 3in tall. And I'm pretty sure Micky is about 6ft 3. Who gives a stuff if they weren't "aerialists", when we had the greatest FF/player (IMO), of all time standing in the forward 50 marking everything in sight. So you'd trade the 462 goals Plugger kicked for us, for a high marking forward, who might kick 30 goals a year?

I really can't understand this argument of yours, Ruckman.

[Bas]

Originally posted by Plugger46
I'd sware Mooney was over 6ft 3in tall. And I'm pretty sure Micky is about 6ft 3. .

Jason Mooney was/is 191cm and Micky is 188cm. Thats from the AFL Record for 2000 and 2002.

[liz]

Originally posted by Bas
Jason Mooney was/is 191cm and Micky is 188cm. Thats from the AFL Record for 2000 and 2002.

My "Ultimate AFL Pocket Guide 2003", which came with the Wizard Cup Record at the start of the season, lists Magic at 190cm. Maybe he was standing on tiptoes...or he's been at the Ent draught.

[robbieando]

Lizz is correct but so is Bas, in AFL 2003 Magic is listed at 190cm and in AFL 2000 and 2002 he is listed at 188cm.

For the record, Mooney was indeed 191cm and Lockett according to AFL 2002 was 191cm as well, so ruckman your facts don't sound too promising anymore, though I can understand your reasoning in parts

[mocaholic]

Originally posted by lizz
Completely agree

Tactically Eade was pretty innovative (as was Drum sitting next to him in the coaching box) and, especially in 1996, caught the competition by surprise with many of his moves.

Up forward, we were not as one-dimensional as some remember, with Obie acting as a valuable foil to Lockett, O'Loughlin emerging as an important contributor, plus the likes of Lewis, Kelly and Kickett chipping in for their fair share of goals.

Two excellent points, Lizz - I was a fan of Drum, & Eade was certainly innovative. Thinking though that for the final against PA last year, if we had've got to 40pts up with Rocket coaching, he may've flooded, thus giving the Power easy possessions at HB or in the centre, and letting their blokes kick goals from the 50. Yet Roosy stuck with the plan & the blokes played man-on-man... Just a thought.

Also, I was a big fan of Obie's (when he wasn't following umpires home & threatening them) and to this day David King is my most hated AFL player cos he went in knees first in the 96 GF and took Obie out. (The mongrel). Obie was a fantastic kick for goal, a la Nick Davis.

And one last comment on trades: as part of the Plugger deal, we got Jack Daniels, a bloke who gave his all but was not shall we say overburdened with skill. We gave the Saints a draft pick for him. So what did they do? Delisted Stephen Newport before the draft and used our pick to re-enlist him! Clever!

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by mocaholic
And one last comment on trades: as part of the Plugger deal, we got Jack Daniels, a bloke who gave his all but was not shall we say overburdened with skill. We gave the Saints a draft pick for him. So what did they do? Delisted Stephen Newport before the draft and used our pick to re-enlist him! Clever!

We gave them Robert Neil I think. Because Daniels was playing with us in '94, the year before Plugger came to our mob. So I'm fairly sure, that Daniels had nothing to do with the Plugger trade. I could be wrong though.