Syd v Coll

[chammond]

Originally posted by Tooth Fairy
aww poor diddums. your nerves are wearing thinner each day

nerves no.

hair yes.

[DST]

Originally posted by Reggi
Mindreader?

What you are saying makes no sense whatsover - As I suggested earlier in this thread, why is it with the 'Saddington cannot play' faction, is so much scrutiny placed on he, when many of his peers do not recieve this scrutiny?

The poor disposal by midfielders - including Goodes far exceeded anything that Saddington did on the weekend.

Now we get even more nonsensical arguements like what you have presented, that he is not as good as Leppitsch. Especially as C Tarrant had a couple of days out against Leppitsch who struggles aerobically.

Not as good as Carey in his heydey, so what?

WTF does that that mean?

I am way way way bored of all these not thought out *opinions* constantly bandied about by this little faction that are pretty illogical and unfounded.

Saddington is being bagged for a game where he kept a quality opponent J Fraser pretty ineffectual and to one goal. I would think that is by any measure it is a fair day at the office yet apparently it was shocking.

I don not mind people questioning the ability of players, but there are a few around here who make these comments and then cannot back them up, some who then just resort to gutless sniping.

It is no use Reggi, there are far to many people here with opinions to air with nothing to back them up other than pre conceived bias.

Just thank god they don't run the football department otherwise Goodes, Matthews, Saddington, Fosdike O'Loughlin and any other whipping boy of the momment would all now be playing against us.

Football is a team game, that is why you have a mixture of players (tall, short, quick, slow, defenfer, forward etc) and the team is the some of all parts. Saddington is but one part of that team and on previous, current and future parts will be a valuable contributor to the team as a whole.

DST

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Reggi
I don not mind people questioning the ability of players, but there are a few around here who make these comments and then cannot back them up

Look at the rd 20 game against Brisbane. Jonathon Brown played on Jason Saddington and Craig Bolton.

On JS, Brown's stats came in about 14 min (IIRC). On CB, Brown's stats came in nearly 3.5 qtrs.

Brown had 3 scoring shots in half a qtr against JS and 5 scoring shots against CB in 3.5 qtrs.

Against JS, there were 4 contests - Brown outmarked him three times, all within 40m of goal and not much angle. One time he didn't, he recovered much faster and fed a goal to someone else (Keating?). He also kicked three goals.

Against CB, Brown took 2 marks on the wing, 2 just inside the 50 and one on a slight angle at about 40. CB was also able to spoil Brown about 3 times.

During last season, Saddington struggled in a few games, such as the 0.5 qtr against Brown (3 goals), 1 qtr against Tarrant (5.3 goals), a half against Medhurst (3.2 goals) following a half against Croad (3.2 goals), and a game against Carey (5.3 goals).

Never said he was hopeless, but the above is hardly a great effort. Sure, he was injured last season, but this has been noted in the past and naturally I can't recall specifics from previous seasons at this stage. If he was injured and not match fit, then he shouldn't be playing.


Just in case you missed it in the other post, seeing as you keep saying no one is providing any evidence

[DST]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

During last season, Saddington struggled in a few games, such as the 0.5 qtr against Brown (3 goals), 1 qtr against Tarrant (5.3 goals), a half against Medhurst (3.2 goals) following a half against Croad (3.2 goals), and a game against Carey (5.3 goals).

That 5.3 against Tarrant had nothing to do with Saddington and everthing to do with the fact our midfield had a brain implosion and shut up shop for 20 minutes. Have never seen the intensity drop away up the field so much during a quarter than that game. No one is going to be able to stop Tarrant one on one when the ball was allowed to be kicked to his preferred spots with out pressure.

The Brown, Carey & Croad games all came after he spent 9 weeks on the side lines and was rushed back in to play for some much needed height. We all admit that Saddington after his return was not the player he was before the injuries so what is your point with those games ?

From my point of view the debate is whether Saddington at his best is any good and to that I say he is a reasonable CHB and definately not as bad as some on this board would have you beleive. Just ask Kevin Sheedy ?

DST

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by DST
That 5.3 against Tarrant had nothing to do with Saddington and everthing to do with the fact our midfield had a brain implosion and shut up shop for 20 minutes.

Nothing...?!?! Remember that Tarrant kicked 4.1 against Sydney in 2002 and 3.2 in 2001 and 4.0 in 2000. He seems to do well against Sydney, in each case kicking above his season average.

EDIT: Except for rd 21 in 2003 when he kicked only 1.2. Oh... and Saddo didn't play in that game...

EDIT: Thought I'd just follow this up some more with a bit more information.

Tarrant took 10 marks against Sydney, above his season average of 8.8pg.

Of those 10 marks, 5 were contested. That is an enormous 50%, well above his season average (23% or 2.1pg).

And do you think perhaps that the Swans' dominance of the midfield for the first 2.5 qtrs also contributed to Saddo's good effort on Tarrant to that stage, after all they'd only kicked 5.8 by midway through the 3rd qtr...

The Brown, Carey & Croad games all came after he spent 9 weeks on the side lines and was rushed back in to play for some much needed height. We all admit that Saddington after his return was not the player he was before the injuries so what is your point with those games ?

The point was simply that people were asking for recent poor performances - they are it. I noted his injuries and lack of match fitness, but he should not be playing if not his best and also he had been back for 5 games already by the time he played against Brisbane.

In the game when he was totally destroyed by Carey, he was playing against a guy who had a slightly more interrupted lead-up to the game and no previous season of playing and who was also quite a bit older and who also failed to kick a goal against Cloke 2 weeks later or the week before against Essendon.

I'd also note that Brown had missed 4 games through injury and had been back for only 6 games.

From my point of view the debate is whether Saddington at his best is any good and to that I say he is a reasonable CHB and definately not as bad as some on this board would have you beleive. Just ask Kevin Sheedy ?

Yep he is a decent enough footballer. He's just an okay CHB at this stage, with some work needed on his decision making and defensive skills. He's definitely not useless, but he's yet to show he is a good key defensive position player.

I'd note that the arguments for Saddo don't offer any evidence either. People say he is one of the first picked. Yet that he is virtually our only tall in the backline and that he was rushed back when not fully fit indicates we have no choice but to pick him (of course we'd still pick him anyway, but being one of the first picked is not necessarily evidence in isolation of other facts).

[anniswan]

I hope that I am not being accused of being a Saddo knocker. He has always been one of my favorites I have always called him the quiet acheiver.

I am just saying it as I see it, and I think that he has the ability but has lost confidence, if that is because of his injury. change of coach, then so be it, but it needs to be recognised and worked on.

I think back 2 or so years ago when I couldn't fault his game, but now even though I don't want to see it his faults are showing through.

Stop the flaming wars, we are all passionate Swans supporters with opinions, whether they are right or wrong.

FWIW, I consider only a few people on this board have impartial analyitical skills, and I am not one of them, and IMHO the best analysis comes from a female contributor, this is just my opinion as I don't take as much notice of the whole picture of the game, I concentrate on the result. It's the type of person I am. So lets accept that everyone has differing views and get on with it.

I don't think that anyone can deny that he needs to bulk up a bit.

[Reggi]

Healthy debate Anni rather than rigourous - I think he's suffering from too things

1 people really wanted him to stand up in the last half of 2003 and being an athletic player he just wasn't fit enough

2 He has a calm relaxed manner which some people take as a lack of intensity.

This has been converted to 'theory', and in the great tradition of 'theories' history can be re-viewed through different coloured glasses.

And god forbid letting the facts get in the way.

If Saddington plays on Medhurst this year I will be very surprised if he doesn't kick 3. If he plays onn Leppitsch I reckon Medhurst is good for 5 and a good 8 on Jakovich.

There is no way that a 194cm CHB is going to have the speed or agility to contain a quick 50 goal forward pocket.

Never gunna happen.

In th four games before Sydney played C/wood Tarrant was in red hot form and had taken 46 marks including 16 against Geelong.

Saddo played him smartly from 15 metres in front - contained him until the final qrtr - I was sitting with Dr - J and BBB who can confirm - he was so shagged he could hardly stand up. But by that time the game - which was over halfway through the third was all over - Saddo had kept him quiet when it mattered - in that circumstance anyway.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Reggi
And god forbid letting the facts get in the way.

Haven't seen too many 'facts' from the other angle!

If Saddington plays on Medhurst this year I will be very surprised if he doesn't kick 3. If he plays onn Leppitsch I reckon Medhurst is good for 5 and a good 8 on Jakovich.

There is no way that a 194cm CHB is going to have the speed or agility to contain a quick 50 goal forward pocket.

And yet conveniently ignoring that Medhurst outmarked Saddington and also crumbed the pack for a shot on goal when Saddington dropped a marked.

In th four games before Sydney played C/wood Tarrant was in red hot form and had taken 46 marks including 16 against Geelong.

And he took 10 against Sydney - that'd be above his season average. He also kicked 5 goals - his second best haul for the year.

Saddo played him smartly from 15 metres in front - contained him until the final qrtr - I was sitting with Dr - J and BBB who can confirm - he was so shagged he could hardly stand up. But by that time the game - which was over halfway through the third was all over - Saddo had kept him quiet when it mattered - in that circumstance anyway.

And as most of us recall, Tarrant nearly dragged Collingwood back into the game with his dominant last qtr. Being tired is hardly much of an excuse. Sure Saddington played well for 3 qtrs, but it's a 4 qtr game and the game wasn't over.

[sharpie]

People can use facts (statistics) to prove anything. 56% of people know that!

[Tooth Fairy]

Originally posted by chammond
nerves no.

hair yes.