Fairytales...

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by bloodboy
Oh, yeah, and by the way NMW Bloods, you do think you are king of the hill on this board and ridicule people at every opportunity. You need to get the pole back outta your keister.

Yep, you know me so well and over so such a long period of time too... Whatever you reckon...

[Craig]

Originally posted by chammond
Ah, but it's gone past all that now, hasn't it. It's now become the great RWO witch hunt, where a group of 'experts' repeat the same anti-Saddo mantra ad-nauseam.

And when anybody tries to take a contrary view, you ridicule them, whilst at the same time complaining about being ridiculed.

How about someone in the clique explaining exactly what Saddington did wrong - facts not opinion - specifics not generalisations. Then we can have a real debate about how good or bad his form is, rather than just making him the whipping boy.

Saddington definitely deserves a place in the best 22. It's just disappointing that so far he hasn't made the most of his potential.

He is simply not strong enough to play CHB and gets pushed off the ball too easily. It is frustrating that he isn't as accountable as other defenders.

Better suited to a half bank flank where he can run and create the play.

[desredandwhite]

Originally posted by Craig
Saddington definitely deserves a place in the best 22. It's just disappointing that so far he hasn't made the most of his potential.

He is simply not strong enough to play CHB and gets pushed off the ball too easily. It is frustrating that he isn't as accountable as other defenders.

Better suited to a half bank flank where he can run and create the play.

I get frustrated because I think he has a lot of talent. I firmly believe that he is NOT a KP defender though, as many have said. He is a winger, or at a pinch, a flanker. I just don't think he is accountable enough to hold down a KP at the moment.

[liz]

Originally posted by desredandwhite
I get frustrated because I think he has a lot of talent. I firmly believe that he is NOT a KP defender though, as many have said. He is a winger, or at a pinch, a flanker. I just don't think he is accountable enough to hold down a KP at the moment.

I'm not entirely convinced he isn't a KPP - as we have discussed recently, he did a reasonable job on Tarrant early last year (and I acknowledge this wasn't everyone's view) and in my opinion he played a KP defensive role consistently well (though not at top shelf level) in 2002.

Notwithstanding that, what other options does the team have at the moment? James was drafted with a KPP role in mind and for well-documented reasons he is only now starting to have a go at that role. Schaubs was injured. I'm not sure that bringing another raw debutant in Rogers in on Saturday would have been the answer.

Of course, the logical conclusion to this line of argument is why the club let itself get into this situation, but top quality KPPs at either end of the ground are fairly hard to find and it takes luck and time to pick the right 17yo who will grow into this position. Roos has already acknowledged that the club is prepared to throw some dollars at this issue at the end of this year. But there have been no key defenders on the market in the last couple of years who I reckon would have solved the problem.

In the meantime, the club has to work with what it has. They know that they will struggle to contain opposition forward lines with multiple tall strong forwards, but Roos clearly has a gameplan to counter that - namely making up for it with skillful athletic types who can partially contain but more importantly rebound. To win a game of football you only have to outscore the opposition; you don't necessarily have to restrict them to a certain number of goals.

Within this context, it is likely that Saddo will be playing on stronger players for many games. I think we are going to have to accept that at times he won't be strong enough - and also that he will make judgement mistakes, as all our players do. We can only hope that he will stick to the task and do the best he can.

FWIW, I didn't think he played that badly on the weekend. Sure, he won't have won any Brownlow votes and he did make some mistakes, but Pike has impressive body strength and his 4 premiership medals suggest he can play a bit. Many of our players made ordinary errors - including our best 3 on the night.

[Reggi]

Plenty of very good CHBs were not strong players.

It's funny but many of the comments here were levelled at Roos himself as a player..

Roosy's playing weight was about 88 Kgs - he certainly was not strong one on one, but that is not how he played. Paul Roos also most certainly played off his man, jesus he was famous for it.

Even if his bloke kicked a few, who cares, he would win so much of the footy. Even going back to 96 when he was AA CHB Sydney did not play him on the likes of Carey, cause it was poor match up.

But I have never heard people question whether Roos was the best CHB at the time.

Saddington just needs to go back to playing his natural game, which is to play off his opponent, and use his speed and athleticism.

Like all players he needs to play to his strength not his weakness

[TheHood]

Originally posted by lizz
I'm not entirely convinced he isn't a KPP - as we have discussed recently, he did a reasonable job on Tarrant early last year (and I acknowledge this wasn't everyone's view) and in my opinion he played a KP defensive role consistently well (though not at top shelf level) in 2002.

Notwithstanding that, what other options does the team have at the moment? James was drafted with a KPP role in mind and for well-documented reasons he is only now starting to have a go at that role. Schaubs was injured. I'm not sure that bringing another raw debutant in Rogers in on Saturday would have been the answer.

Of course, the logical conclusion to this line of argument is why the club let itself get into this situation, but top quality KPPs at either end of the ground are fairly hard to find and it takes luck and time to pick the right 17yo who will grow into this position. Roos has already acknowledged that the club is prepared to throw some dollars at this issue at the end of this year. But there have been no key defenders on the market in the last couple of years who I reckon would have solved the problem.

In the meantime, the club has to work with what it has. They know that they will struggle to contain opposition forward lines with multiple tall strong forwards, but Roos clearly has a gameplan to counter that - namely making up for it with skillful athletic types who can partially contain but more importantly rebound. To win a game of football you only have to outscore the opposition; you don't necessarily have to restrict them to a certain number of goals.

Within this context, it is likely that Saddo will be playing on stronger players for many games. I think we are going to have to accept that at times he won't be strong enough - and also that he will make judgement mistakes, as all our players do. We can only hope that he will stick to the task and do the best he can.

FWIW, I didn't think he played that badly on the weekend. Sure, he won't have won any Brownlow votes and he did make some mistakes, but Pike has impressive body strength and his 4 premiership medals suggest he can play a bit. Many of our players made ordinary errors - including our best 3 on the night.

I remember hearing Wallsy say that it was no good Jason being a fringe player after 125 games and it was time he became the player of his potential or words to that effect. It was hard to disagree.

Having said that, I actually don't remember thinking, gee Saddo was the main reason the Lions kicked more goals than us. Thought he was ok in fact and yes I caught Goodesy and Bally and ROK making basic errors as well.

It was a tight tough game of footy and we matched them and matched them very well.

Lethal conceded that it was only a matter of who was in front when the siren went and as bad timing would have it, it was us sadly.

Lets talk about Freo shall we?

Can we get LRT to barge into the abdomen of Sandilands? Who did he career into last year and got off scott-free?

[bloodboy]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Yep, you know me so well and over so such a long period of time too... Whatever you reckon...

I have been reading stuff on this messageboard for about two years now matey...that's quite a long time. You are right though, I don't know you and don't want to know you...

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by bloodboy
I have been reading stuff on this messageboard for about two years now matey...that's quite a long time. You are right though, I don't know you and don't want to know you...

It's hardly of any consequence to me...

[dendol]

Originally posted by Reggi
Saddington just needs to go back to playing his natural game, which is to play off his opponent, and use his speed and athleticism.

Like all players he needs to play to his strength not his weakness

True. He played a couple of metres in front of Tarrant at the Telstra Dome game last year and came out on top for a 3 quarters. I know this is only going to bring up the debate that he got hammered by Tarrant in the 4th quarter, but the point Im trying to make is that he has shown, albeit inconsistently, that he is capable of restricting some of the better players in the comp.

[NMWBloods]

Well, at the risk of starting this debate again, I taped and watched this game a couple of times a few weeks ago.

Saddo did okay against Tarrant in the first 2.5 qtrs, with some useful spoils, but the key thing in restricting Tarrant's game was our midfield dominance. Collingwood was struggling to get the ball forward coherently, they were taking too much time and their delivery was woeful. We were able to get players back to block Tarrant's space to lead into, and allow Saddo to play forward of Tarrant to chop off the kicks or give him time to fall back to cover Tarrant.

In the 4th qtr and second half of the 3rd qtr, Collingwood's delivery still wasn't great, but it was much faster so Saddo could no longer play forward of Tarrant (which he discovered to his detriment in the worst way near the end of the 3rd qtr). There was more space for Tarrant to lead into, which he did, plus the ball was kicked longer and deeper providing more one-on-one marking contests, in which Tarrant dominated.

Saddo's problem is that I don't think he is a good defensive specialist, and games such as the Collingwood one and last weekend, as well as others, seem to confirm this. He can do okay for a while, but really isn't that great and he doesn't seem to be able to do it regularly or consistently enough. Therefore I think it is best not to put him on the opposing team's gun, who kicks goals or sets them up. I think we have generally done this partly because we have not had many other choices and partly in the hope that he will turn into a good KPP.

What I would prefer is to probably see him play on the opposing side's third tall, where we do not rely on his one-on-one defensive skills so much, but instead to give us some extra height and rebound.

As a third man up in contests, with his height and leap he could be useful coming over the back or from the side to punch the ball or mark, as the case warrants, against some of the better forwards we struggle to match up on. The key thing he would need here is decision making, in terms of marking or punching plus whether to fly or not, as well as timing and ground awareness to be in the right spot at the right time. Time will tell whether he can develop these sufficiently, but he does show signs here and there.

Placing him perhaps in a back pocket position (but the other back pocket would need to be someone like Mathews/Crouch/Fixter to mind the small forward) could suit this style of game.

The rebound option is something he may look to develop too, in the Roos sort of "quarterbacking" role. He would not be able to provide the run we get from Kennelly and Barry, but he has the potential to be the playmaker, sort of in the way Chris Johnson is for Brisbane.

So that possibly means Saddington should be in a HBF role, as the floating 'help' defender and "quarterback." He has the ability to fill this role well, but does he have the nouse?

This would result in perhaps Schauble at FB, with CHB and one of the BP filled by either James or Bolton. The other BP by a small defender. HBF for Barry. Kennelly to move to the wing.

Of course, that other HBF could also be filled by Williams in future years (unless he became a permanent HFF) or one of the young kids, like Bevan or Powell or someone else.

I think Saddington needs to develop this style of game if he wants to be part of our defensive unit in future years and if we want an effective defensive team.

[dendol]

I've always liked the idea of him being the extra man in defense. Jason Cloke seems to play this role for Collingwood, although Malthouse also likes to play him forward for no results. The problem is that most opposition coaches wont allow him to float around by himself if he is effective.

If he is the floating helper on the oppositions third tall, it will test his decision making even more. Does he stay with his man, or help his team mates? On a smaller ground like the SCG, its definately easier for defenders to cover for each other. On the larger fields on Subiaco or the MCG is where I think he will struggle, because invariably the opposition can find ways to isolate defenders.

I doubt we'll see Saddo become a playmaker ala C Johnson though! We lament everyday that his decision making and disposals sometimes let him down...

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by dendol
On the larger fields on Subiaco or the MCG is where I think he will struggle, because invariably the opposition can find ways to isolate defenders.

I doubt we'll see Saddo become a playmaker ala C Johnson though! We lament everyday that his decision making and disposals sometimes let him down...

If it doesn't happen for these reasons, I'm not sure where that leaves him. Perhaps if our other younger backmen cement places in the team, he will simply become a fringe player - another one who seemed full of promise but failed to fully deliver.