Goodes...

[Red]

Originally posted by Charlie
Your post seems to read like a 'where do we put this guy so he's out of the way' post rather than a 'how do we best use his freakish talent' one.

Then I've worded it wrong. Because the 'how do we best use his freakish talent' point is <i>exactly</i> the one I'm trying to make: we use it where it's needed the <i>most</i> right now -- in defence.

[dendol]

Originally posted by Charlie
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you that Goodes is too slow.

Pace is an advantage, but you can trade a yard of pace for height, and make no mistake, Goodes is one of the fastest tall guys in the league. A little extra height in exchange for a little less pace works for Pavlich. It works for Koutoufides. It's worked before for Goodes - he played on the wing in his best games in 2002.

You need a mix. 2 tall guys, 2 fast guys and 2 pack rats is a good mix. Especially when one of the tall guys is Adam Goodes.

Your post seems to read like a 'where do we put this guy so he's out of the way' post rather than a 'how do we best use his freakish talent' one.

yep. I really hope we get to see him in the middle next week. On the wing, his mixture of pace and height would surely test most teams. As I've said before, he can float forward or back from here as well. Last year, he seemed to be getting the ball all over the ground when he had a license to roam.

Im not sure where this need for him to play permanently forward has come from. O'Keefe has done admirably in Mickey's absence.

[NMWBloods]

I have a feeling Goodes may not work in defence as I'm notsure if he has the discipline or football smarts to mind a forward.

Just let him roam the field I say.

I think he would do a great job out of the centre - don't need to be fast to get a CB clearance.

You don't need to be super quick to play in the midfield either.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Red
Then I've worded it wrong. Because the 'how do we best use his freakish talent' point is <i>exactly</i> the one I'm trying to make: we use it where it's needed the <i>most</i> right now -- in defence.

If we had two Goodesy's, I might be willing to consider putting the second in a negating role.

I just think it robs us of our biggest tactical advantage. Don't get me wrong, so does having him at full-forward... but put him in the middle, where's there's only a few tall blokes capable of running with him in the competition.

It's conceding ground before the first bounce.

Do we even have any reason to assume that Goodes is strong defensively?

[dendol]

Has Goodes ever played in defence though? Even through the Eade era, I remember him lining up in the forward line or ruck more often than not. Last year we only saw him in defense when we needed him to help out as third man, and also to mop up and be the link man when rebounding.

[Bexl]

Originally posted by midaro
Goodes won a Rising Star award... as a ruckman.
Goodes won All-Australian 2003... as a ruckman.
Goodes won a Brownlow... as a ruckman.

Why don't we play him as... a ruckman?

DITO.
just look at the 1st final last year.
doyle needs to be dropped and goodes 1st ruck.

ps he also won a best and fairest as a ruckman as well.

[floppinab]

Yeah, can't work out Goodes at all this year.

Check his attitude after kicking that left footed goal in the second, shakes his head, almost nonsensical.

He started the year as per the last against the Lions, Freo and the Roos, hard to know what is going on whether its the team structure or an injury

[anniswan]

I have a shocking memory, but except for Robert Harvey, has any Brownlow Medalist had a fantastic year the year after they won the Brownlow.

Crawf had a shocker. Black played OK, nothing stunning. Aker doesn't surprise anyone any more. Woewodin, got dumped the following year.

Buckley has been too injured this year to do anything, Richutto has done OK but not great.

I see the Brownlow as a bit of a jinx, maybe the one's that win it feel that they are now so good that they can give anything a go. IMHO at the moment Goodes seems to be trying to emulate 2003 but it's not quite working out. He know he is capable of doing great things and seems to be sitting waiting for them to happen.

Just my $0.002 worth

[Diego]

I agree with that theory. Everythings adds up for it to sound logical enough.

I havent seen him this bad since we had Eade. And Roos seemed to be having a go at him too.

[liz]

Originally posted by anniswan
IMHO at the moment Goodes seems to be trying to emulate 2003 but it's not quite working out. He know he is capable of doing great things and seems to be sitting waiting for them to happen.

Just my $0.002 worth

Can't argue with your observations but one has to wonder what's going on in his head. Everything he has said in the media and on Brownlow night suggests he is a level headed, modest young man with no illusions that he still can - and needs to - improve. Complacency just doesn't seem to cut it as an explanation.

Yet it is getting to the stage when not only is the team not getting anything like the contribution from him that they got last year, but he is actually looking like a liability out there, as Stafford was in his final year up here.

Maybe that's harsh but he was so fantastic last year and a delight to watch and I just desperately want him to 'refind' whatever it is that has gone missing. And while I'm not suggesting that the team's woes are entirely down to him, I have a feeling that a lot of other things might start to fall into place if he can get it together. I suspect a lot of, say, the Bomber players' heads would start to drop if Hird started making the elementary errors that Goodes is making at the moment.

That's not a defence of the team - indeed it reflects poorly on them if it's even a touch true - but I wonder if it's part of what's going on.

[dendol]

It almost seems that everytime he gets the ball, something somewhere conspires to ruin it for him. Today, he had a kick from the forward pocket. The ump yells playon when he fakes a pass inside, and then the boundary umpire calls him out of bounds. There have been quite a few of these types of things - which include his grubber kicks - all season long.

I dont think he is a liability yet, but Im very worried at the moment. Does playing up forward work when he is lacking confidence? I cant remember the last time he marked and had a set shot. The reaction of his left foot goal from 40m today almost tells the story - he can kick a leftie off two steps, but cant do the basic things right.

If Eade said today that he thought he made a mistake playing him up forward, why is Roos persisting with it? We'd all love to see him on the ball or on a wing.

[anniswan]

Originally posted by lizz
Can't argue with your observations but one has to wonder what's going on in his head. Everything he has said in the media and on Brownlow night suggests he is a level headed, modest young man with no illusions that he still can - and needs to - improve.

Being placed in the media spotlight as he was can have sub concious effects on anyone. He was voted as the best and fairest player. Last year he had to work to get there, he may not have the hunger to get there again, once you reach to top of something it's very hard to come down from that feeling.

I am just waxing lyrical here, but it seems to be too much of a pattern that most BL Medalists have a very ordinary year the year after winning it. Something must get into their psyche.

[NMWBloods]

Goodes is currently playing very much like he did in early 2002 when he was close to being dropped.

He is failing to read the play, he seems completely out of sorts when going for the ball (like that ridiculous 'marking attempt' in the 2nd, or maybe 4th, qtr), he is not really making an effort to get to contests, and he is making basic fundamental skill errors.

Of course he should be able to turn it around - he has before. But I hope he does it soon.

[ugg]

Those with access to the multimedia section on the AFL site should take a listen to what Roos had to say about Goodes. It seems that the coaching staff can't figure out where to play him either. I say stick him back at ruck or ruck-rover where he played his best footy last year. In the forward line, he seems to let his man go unaccounted for too often, whether as a result of running of his man or otherwise.

[robbieando]

I wouldn't rule out an injury. On Saturday at banner making, Jarred Sundqvist stopped by and when asked about Goodes and the fact his average form this season might be down to an injury, Jarred seemed to be hiding something in his reply (his answer was "he is trying too hard"). Its beyond me as to why Roos would have Goodes down in the forward, knowing full well what happen in 2000 after being moved to CHF, after winning the Rising Star award as a ruckman. Its like the team misses his drive in the centre. Playing as a forward is hard to believe unless of course he is carrying some sort of injury.

Whatever the reason we need him in the centre more offen that he is at the moment. Without him we don't stand a chance.