Goodes...

[undy]

Originally posted by dendol
Has Goodes ever played in defence though? Even through the Eade era, I remember him lining up in the forward line or ruck more often than not. Last year we only saw him in defense when we needed him to help out as third man, and also to mop up and be the link man when rebounding.

Yep, I think he used to play as CHB before coming to the swans. Apparently as a defender, he regularly used to line up against a promising forward called... Jason Saddington.

[Schneidergirl]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

He is failing to read the play, he seems completely out of sorts when going for the ball (like that ridiculous 'marking attempt' in the 2nd, or maybe 4th, qtr), he is not really making an effort to get to contests, and he is making basic fundamental skill errors.

These are my thoughts too! He is going for marks, and either going up too early or missing entirely. He is making it look too hard!

I think he is a terrific player, and like a lot of people above me have said he played his best games last year as ruck/rover. No one in the competition can match his style of play (in this position) he is an asset to the Swans!

His goal attempts early this season left a lot to be desired!

On the Swans; I hope we can turn our season around this weekend, and play with confidence and show the AFL we aren't push overs!

CARN THE BLOODS!!!!!

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by dendol
It almost seems that everytime he gets the ball, something somewhere conspires to ruin it for him. Today, he had a kick from the forward pocket. The ump yells playon when he fakes a pass inside, and then the boundary umpire calls him out of bounds.

Something "conspires"? His fear of taking a shot on goals is the worst kept secret at the swans and it's been growing since last year. This week when faced with a difficult shot from the bounday . . . everyone knew there was no way he was going to have a shot . That faked pass that the umpire pinged him for was no fake, he wanted desperately to pass . . . even the opposition knows he always tries to pass rather than take a shot and Richmond knew they could concentrate on his teammates rather than defend the goal line.

Whether he plays forward or not (I think he's wasted there) he needs some remedial help from someone like plugger because it's getting embarassing.

Without Goodes in the ruck, (which provides us with a fourth midfielder at bounces ~ he roves a lot of his own taps) we loose a lot at clearances. And if the opposition taggs Kirk, as Richmond did, then we're really stuffed.

So why isn't he in the ruck where he can be run into form?
Probably Roos believes his frame won't take the buffeting, that he will lose his spring from too many collisions (ala Dermott Brereton). In this he's probably correct ~ but CAN he however play anywhere other than the ruck?

I believe like many of you he should be returned to the midfield, he should spend half of each quater in the ruck (about all he can stand), the rest of the game should be spent either in the forward line "resting" (although not long because he really has phenomenal aerobic capacity) or as someone suggested in the preseason he should spend time on the ball. Not however at centre square bounces.

[Charlie]

I don't think that Goodes should spend time at the centre bounces unless absolutely necessary - his frame isn't that dissimilar to Brennan, who has been taking a pounding in the bounces the last couple of weeks.

Around the ground, though, his athletic capacity makes him more or less unbeatable. At these stoppages, the emphasis is much more on getting the right position, rather than brute force, and his body won't take a pounding.

[cressakel]

Originally posted by Red
[
Scenario #1: Little opposition guy gets the ball, runs away with it. Goodes/Doyle/Ball lumbers away after him, looking silly.

Solution? Simple -- Goodes in defence. Leave the forwards to it, the midfield quicks to it, and use some of that brilliance where it's <i>really</i> needed. [/B]

I don't agree with scenario #1, as the difference between Adam Goodes and James Hird is Goodesy is quicker over the first 15 metres but only 4cm taller than Hirdy - and Sheedy doesn't use the line that you are too tall and slow to play in the midfield James !!

The opposition chases Hirdy, as they would with Goodesy, and not the other way around. The Little opposition guy will be feeling smaller than he already is !!

In regard to Goodesy in defence, your kidding ! Goodesy was tried in defence near the end of Floodney Eade's stint as Coach and failed dismally ! Aboriginals, with there flair and all, have never been inclined to be close checking reliable defenders.

[dendol]

Just saw Ten news, and the report mentioned that Goodes was out of form playing as a permanent forward, where he has kicked 3 goals in 4 games there. The reporter mentioned a move back into the ruck where he won his Brownlow, but Roos said that we cant have him rucking 80-90 minutes a game. He did acknowledge that Goodes needs to spend more time in there to regain form though.

Fingers crossed he gets the time he needs there to turn it around. Like most of you guys have said, he doesnt need to be in the ruck to play in the midfield.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by dendol
Just saw Ten news, and the report mentioned that Goodes was out of form playing as a permanent forward, where he has kicked 3 goals in 4 games there. The reporter mentioned a move back into the ruck where he won his Brownlow, but Roos said that we cant have him rucking 80-90 minutes a game. He did acknowledge that Goodes needs to spend more time in there to regain form though.

Fingers crossed he gets the time he needs there to turn it around. Like most of you guys have said, he doesnt need to be in the ruck to play in the midfield.

I don't really understand what Roos is on about. Sure he can't ruck 80-90 minutes, but he can play in the midfield that long or resting across half back. He pretty much didn't play at all in the ruck on the weekend.

[dendol]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I don't really understand what Roos is on about. Sure he can't ruck 80-90 minutes, but he can play in the midfield that long or resting across half back. He pretty much didn't play at all in the ruck on the weekend.

I have a strong feeling that Roos is trying get our other ruck combination in Doyle and Ball working, and only sending Goodes in there if we need a change in style. Doyle needs time in there as he still seems a bit raw with his tapwork. This seems to fit in with the suspicion that Goodes may be carrying an injury - ruckwork would tax him more than playing up forward.

Another thing is that in the rain, with so many players surrounding the ball, Doyle and Ball would be a better match, physically, to Ottens and Stafford. Goodes wont get to use his athleticism with such a large pack formed at the stoppages.

What I dont understand is when Roos mentions that Goodes is important to our forward structure. Since when? After watching the tape last night, I noticed that Goodes did get more time on the ball in the second half, to no affect though. Again, the nature of wet weather footy dictates that the small crumbers (apart from Richo!) will be more effective.

I hope that we get a dry track at Subi. It will pit our out-of-form midfield against one of the speediest in the league, on a large open ground. It will be a true test for both our players, and prove if there is any reason for the current lack of faith (as seen in some posts) in our coaches' tactics.

[liz]

As Cliff pointed out a week ago, Goodes moved into the ruck in the fourth quarter last week and wow, look what happened. The team started to bear some resemblance to a football team.

What is frustrating though (because I don't really understand it), is why him not playing in the ruck stops him marking, kicking and running. If it were just that he wasn't getting to contests because he wasn't reading the play in another position that would be one thing. But why does his confidence in his ability to do the basics appear to be completely shot just because he is not being played predominantly as a ruckman?

[Red]

Originally posted by cressakel
I don't agree with scenario #1, as the difference between Adam Goodes and James Hird is Goodesy is quicker over the first 15 metres but only 4cm taller than Hirdy - and Sheedy doesn't use the line that you are too tall and slow to play in the midfield James !!

The opposition chases Hirdy, as they would with Goodesy, and not the other way around. The Little opposition guy will be feeling smaller than he already is !!

In regard to Goodesy in defence, your kidding ! Goodesy was tried in defence near the end of Floodney Eade's stint as Coach and failed dismally ! Aboriginals, with there flair and all, have never been inclined to be close checking reliable defenders.

I don't agree with your examples either, cressakel.

The scenario was about raw speed, and how shorter guys are generally quicker than big ones. Hird isn't that pacy, and Goodes probably could beat him in a footrace. But Hird has incredible speed in getting the ball and dishing it off -- which is beside the point.

Everyone was pretty bad in Rodney's final stanza, which is why he left mid-season. I've seen Goodes play in defence before, at the start of his senior career & in the 2's. IMO he never 'failed miserably' there, I'd be interested to know where that comment comes from. And as someone else here pointed out, he still drops back there on occasions when he's needed. My point is, we need him there <i>all the time</i> right now.

I take it you haven't seen guys like Bryon Pickett, David Wirrpunda and Gavin Wanganeen play in defence? Why do you (or anyone else for that matter) think that "Aboriginals, with there flair and all" don't make good defenders?

[cressakel]

Originally posted by Red
I don't agree with your examples either, cressakel.

The scenario was about raw speed, and how shorter guys are generally quicker than big ones. Hird isn't that pacy, and Goodes probably could beat him in a footrace. But Hird has incredible speed in getting the ball and dishing it off -- which is beside the point.

Everyone was pretty bad in Rodney's final stanza, which is why he left mid-season. I've seen Goodes play in defence before, at the start of his senior career & in the 2's. IMO he never 'failed miserably' there, I'd be interested to know where that comment comes from. And as someone else here pointed out, he still drops back there on occasions when he's needed. My point is, we need him there <i>all the time</i> right now.

I take it you haven't seen guys like Bryon Pickett, David Wirrpunda and Gavin Wanganeen play in defence? Why do you (or anyone else for that matter) think that "Aboriginals, with there flair and all" don't make good defenders?

I definitely disagree with your replies Red.

Para 1 - Raw speed is for the Athens Olympics in 3 months, not a bloody footy ground. Football is about getting the pill and making use of it when in possession, not who is the quickest player on the oval. Hird, Greg Williams and Goodes are not the quickest of players, but they know how to get there hands on the pill first and make usage of the pill through there incredible footy brains and awareness. Maybe we should recruit David Wojcinski from Geelong to play in the middle, as he is super quick but has NFI !!

Para 2 - The only time Goodes has been played in defence ( early 2002 ), he has been close to getting dropped for the only time in his career. A comparison between seconds football and Senior football - you have got to be kidding ! I once saw Goodes playing defence against the Kangaroos seconds at Arden Street the year before he won the Norwich Rising Star, he didn't play too bad but there was no Tredrea, J.Brown, Pavlich, Reiwoldt, Rocca etc etc playing for the Kanga's seconds that day !! And he was playing Back Bloody Pocket.

Goodes drops back in defence on HIS OWN, not on an opponent that has to be minded and nullified.

Para 3 - Ask any North supporter what they thought of " Loose Goose " Pickett when he played for them in defence and I garuantee they will be frothing at the mouth explaining their disgust at how loose he was. Pickett is now playing forward for Port.

Ditto with Wirrpunda as per above paragraph.

Wanganeen is the exception, but I think we really should find out about his Aboriginal background, as he looks very much European and plays like a Kamikaze Pilot !!

[sharpie]

At least Goodes wont be required down back this week, coz the Weagles have a very short forward line.

[Go Swannies]

In fact the Weagles and Swans are very similar in lots of ways. And both are playing like lame ducks. If there was ever a week to just give it a go, this is it. If we play a short chipping game so it takes a week to get up the Subiaco ground I'll despair for our future.

Paul Roos: can we just get Goodes and the rest of the game to put on a running show this weekend. Tell them that turnovers aren't important - they do that anyway - but the unforgivable sin should be standing flat footed with hands on hips.

If we lose can we go down fighting - and that's not just at the bottom of another fumbled ruck.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Red
I take it you haven't seen guys like Bryon Pickett, David Wirrpunda and Gavin Wanganeen play in defence? Why do you (or anyone else for that matter) think that "Aboriginals, with there flair and all" don't make good defenders?

The players you named are either Back Pockets or Half Back Flankers who run off their men to set up attacks. Name me an Aboriginal who has had great success at either Full Back or Centre Half Back. Goodes at Centre Half Back would only work if he was able to run off his man, which he couldn't do against the teams we must beat to win a premiership. Goodes needs to be involved in the play as much as possible, not held down in a key position role. He needs to be on the ball to provide the club with the drive we got out of him last seasom, something he hardly can do when he has to keep an eye on his man down back. We shouldn't still be talking about what is Goodes best position, at this stage of his career, when he has played his best footy on the ball and his worst footy in a key position.

[Newbie]

Is Mal Micheal an Aboriginal? I thought he is?