JUDE BOLTON...superstar?

[liz]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

Some of those are perhaps arguable, but that is 42 midfielder types, most of whom are better.

I'd say probably a third of that list you wouldn't get many arguments about but the rest are highly debatable. Jude is probably on a par with most of the rest, at the very least.

Bolton finished third last year at a club that was one quarter away from a grand final berth. That is a fair achievement, when you consider he finished ahead of the likes of Barry Hall, Leo Barry, Paul Williams, Daryn Cresswell (for example) who all had pretty fine years themselves.

I know he has to do it for more than one year to be considered up there in the top group but he is starting to reproduce last year's form again, and was a more than handy, steady player in the prior years. Many of those players on your list have barely done it for more than one season, if that, and even their one good season probably doesn't better Judes'.

Names like Mitchell, Coughlan, Ball, Fletcher for example.

[ugg]

Just outside my top 50. Most here seem to harp on his shortcomings rather than what his strong points are.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by lizz
I know he has to do it for more than one year to be considered up there in the top group but he is starting to reproduce last year's form again, and was a more than handy, steady player in the prior years. Many of those players on your list have barely done it for more than one season, if that, and even their one good season probably doesn't better Judes'.

Names like Mitchell, Coughlan, Ball, Fletcher for example.

I think Mitchell's and Coughlan's years were better than Bolton's last year, and their years were definitely better than his 2 years earlier.

Ball looks very useful, and at only 20 is potentially at least on a par with Bolton who is 4 years older.

Fletcher has probably been performing well at least as long as Bolton.

My issue with Bolton is not that he's a bad footballer, as I don't think that, but rather he is not an elite midfielder. He is a second or third strong midfielder. Very useful in the group, but not your top couple of guys. He's not the sort of player who you think, mustn't leave him alone for an instant or he'll hurt us. Many of his possessions are either not particularly damaging nor overly effective. He can do some very good things, but most of his stuff is just ordinary.

That gives him a role in the team definitely, but not as the gun midfielder.

[Captain]

I wouldn't say Tim Notting is better than Bolton.

[Barry Schneider]

Good on you NMW for posting those names.I don't think Jude is an elite midfielder but he stacks up quite well against many of the players you mention specially when it comes to value for money.I don't think you can compare him to loose checking backmen,Chris Johnson,Rohan Smith ,Rioli,McPhee and "cheats" like Yze.(not my description 3aw commentators).
He is better than Notting,M Johnson(he is a backpocket trying to play midfield and doing it comically).
Hart is a tagger.
When I read he was about to get $300,000 per year I thought that was well over the odds but I have come around to the thinking he is worth that much compared to players at other clubs.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Barry Schneider
I don't think you can compare him to loose checking backmen,Chris Johnson,Rohan Smith ,Rioli,McPhee and "cheats" like Yze.(not my description 3aw commentators).

Most of these players have played as backs, midfielders and forwards. They can be loose checking but their main aim is to provide drive. Bolton is not particularly good at defence himself.

He is better than Notting,M Johnson(he is a backpocket trying to play midfield and doing it comically).

Yep - MJ is one he is probably better than. I think Notting is better though - much more explosive and damaging.

Hart is a tagger.

Hart is like Kirk - tagger and ball winner. He won a Norm Smith medal remember.

When I read he was about to get $300,000 per year I thought that was well over the odds but I have come around to the thinking he is worth that much compared to players at other clubs.

I think one lesson from this is that footballers are vastly overpaid and is one reason why football clubs are often close to bankruptcy (as well as incompetent management).

[Barry Schneider]

Looks like we are going to disagree on this issue.
I compare Jude, who in my opinion is an in and under, hard ball getter to Coughlan ,Mitchell that type of player.Limited in kicking ability but whose job it is to get it to the better ball disposers or disrupt the oppostions supply.

Rohan Smith,Rioli McPhee are more Kennelly,Leo(pre Schauble's injury) type players.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Barry Schneider
Looks like we are going to disagree on this issue.
I compare Jude, who in my opinion is an in and under, hard ball getter to Coughlan ,Mitchell that type of player.Limited in kicking ability but whose job it is to get it to the better ball disposers or disrupt the oppostions supply.

Yep, he is that style. However, one of the key differences is the effectiveness of clearances. Bolton's style is to dive on the ball and lock it in and then try to clear it out. What often happens is that it doesn't go anywhere, hence we get a stoppage which are not our strengths. If he does get a clearance then it often goes to a player near the scrum and hence doesn't give us a clean disposal. Compare that to some of the very effective clearance getters, such as Black, who are able to gather the ball quickly , spot an opportunity and then find a player who has a bit more time and is a bit clear of the pack to get the ball moving.

Rohan Smith,Rioli McPhee are more Kennelly,Leo(pre Schauble's injury) type players.

Yes, they are more that style. However, I was simply comparing across very broad categories (which is still finer than what the top 100 does anyway).

Overall though, it is a fairly subjective judgement. He's neither a superstar nor a dud - somewhere inbetween and each person will have a different view where.

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

I think one lesson from this is that footballers are vastly overpaid and is one reason why football clubs are often close to bankruptcy (as well as incompetent management).

It appears Jude will be paid about half the lower end of the going rate for elite footballers so this seems a pretty pointless exercise. He's getting market rate for his skills.

God we are condescending! Jude is, at worse, one of the best 288 football players in Australia. (best 18 of 16 clubs.) That's elite. Yet some think he is overpaid at $300,000 pa. What do you think the average wage of the top, say, 3000 Australian bankers would be? It'd be a hell of a lot more than than. And they won't be too worn out to continue their careers by their early 30s. And they probably won't be walking with a cane from their career injuries by the time they are in middle age.

The average footballer would have 8-10 earning years - and only the last of those are going to be at their top rate, unless they are young stars who sign contracts at the right time.

And then there is one wrong turn, one bad contact and the whole career is over - or (the good option) face years of rehab and a lifetime of pain. Makes Jason Ball's merchant banking career seem very sensible, doesn't it?

Nathan Buckley said that he owes footy a lot because without it he'd probably be driving a truck. And he gets the adulation and all too. But there are a lot easier ways of making money than playing footy.

I do find the amount that US basketball players make obscene - $80 million isn't a reasonable wage. But AFL players making roughly the same as barristers seems equitable to me.

The rumour going around last year was that a reason Andrew Dunkley sold his Eastern Suburbs house was that he could no longer get up and down the stairs easily. Age 35?

It's a short career - pay them what they can get.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
God we are condescending! Jude is, at worse, one of the best 288 football players in Australia. (best 18 of 16 clubs.) That's elite. Yet some think he is overpaid at $300,000 pa. What do you think the average wage of the top, say, 3000 Australian bankers would be? It'd be a hell of a lot more than than. And they won't be too worn out to continue their careers by their early 30s. And they probably won't be walking with a cane from their career injuries by the time they are in middle age.

Many are worn out by their mid 30s. They also work far longer hours than footballers and don't make that money quite as young as the footballers.

They also work for far larger entities that can afford to pay a lot more, hence my 'bankruptcy' comment.

The average footballer would have 8-10 earning years - and only the last of those are going to be at their top rate, unless they are young stars who sign contracts at the right time.

And then there is one wrong turn, one bad contact and the whole career is over - or (the good option) face years of rehab and a lifetime of pain. Makes Jason Ball's merchant banking career seem very sensible, doesn't it?

Nathan Buckley said that he owes footy a lot because without it he'd probably be driving a truck. And he gets the adulation and all too. But there are a lot easier ways of making money than playing footy.

Footy is a pretty decent and enjoyable way to make damn good money at a young age. They also can make very good money from sponsorships - a number of them would never need to work again if they didn't want to.

Plenty of them also have fantastic opportunities to make money after football - restaurants, hotels, media, stockbroking. Being a well-known name opens a lot of doors.

I do find the amount that US basketball players make obscene - $80 million isn't a reasonable wage. But AFL players making roughly the same as barristers seems equitable to me.

Because AFL footballers study for years and work long hours...?

For god's sake, let's have a cry for the poor footballers who have such a tough life and barely make enough money playing sport...

[Go Swannies]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
For god's sake, let's have a cry for the poor footballers who have such a tough life and barely make enough money playing sport...

Has anyone made that statement?

A bit of footballer envy shining through, is there?

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Go Swannies
Has anyone made that statement?

I thought it was inferred by some of your comments and the tone of your post defending whatever they can get.

A bit of footballer envy shining through, is there?

Not at all. I just think they are get a lot of money for a job most people would like to do.

[Damien]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
[B]I thought it was inferred by some of your comments and the tone of your post defending whatever they can get.



Not at all. I just think they are get a lot of money for a job most people would like to do.

Exactly.

And let us not forget the amazing networking opportunities they get also. You don't often hear of a footballer who remains unemployed after football retirement.

They get paid to do something they love to do, and what most generations before them did for free.

[Nico]

Side benefits are pretty good too. A click of the fingers and they have a bevvy of beauties on each arm. Bet the 3000 bankers have to work a bit harder than that.

[caj23]

all clubs with the exception of the financially challenged are required to pay 97.5% (??) of the full salary cap limit so the money has to go somewhere

i'm happy for the swans to be spending $300 k of it on Jude

BTW NMW there is no way that Notting or Hart (in 2004 form), are better than Jude