Roos praising @@@@house players again

[swansrule100]

the best kick in the swans team is nick davis

even barry hall loses his mind when kicking sometimes ... i think the first quarter agaisnt the dockers rather than have a shot from 40 he did some stupid pass that went nowhere

[liz]

There are several different aspects to assessing a player's kicking skills and I reckon you need to distinguish between them. I also think you need to separate decision making from raw kicking ability.

If you're looking for the ability to deliver consistently accurately over a short to medium distance, I reckon our forwards are the best - Barry, Nicks and O'Loughlin.

Several players can consistently kick long with penetration- Maxfield, Williams, Kennelly, O'Keefe, Ablett, C Bolton, Schneider, Davis are the standouts in my mind, though Ablett and Bolton have not been particularly accurate this year and Maxfield and Williams a bit up and down.

If you were looking for who BBB would most like to be leading out to for a long kick towards him my pick would be Kennelly. For a player to pump it long and high to the top of the goal square Maxfield or O'Keefe would probably be my choices.

Kirk's field kicking can be a bit wobbly but in front of goals he's usually pretty good (though the last couple of weeks don't support that).

For a routine shot at goal, Nicks or O'Keefe would be the safest bets. From an "impossible" angle O'Keefe or Schneider are decent bets, though O'Loughlin and Hall are reasonable too. Even Jude has scored several from tight on the boundary line. It goes without saying that from 50+m out most of us would pencil in Davis without any question.

Overall the kicking skill levels have been very inconsistent from almost all the Swans players this year (Hall, Nicks and O'Keefe possibly excepted) - much more so than last - and I think that's why we're struggling. But the skill level has been a return to pre-2003 rather than a worsening beyond that. A marked improvement in ball usage was a key factor in the team's success last year.

Whether this is due to greater pressure on the ball carrier, a lack of confidence or a drop in work rate leading to a lack of options I'm not sure. It's probably a combination of all three (plus more).

[ScottH]

Wow, Great assessment Lizz.

Are you sure you are not a coach???

Or are you P Roos using an alias???

[swansrule100]

kicking for goal is probably in decline league wide!

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by Nico
Some of our players CAN kick. But when they are under pressure and have 2-3 half forwards chasing them thus resulting in a disposal that doesn't even resemble a drop punt, what do you expect.


What, I don't believe I read that balderdash. You can't be serious.
You know Jack Shizen about the skills of the game.

If a player cannot kick the ball properly on the run with a player or two on his tail then he shouldn't be playing at AFL level. This is basic stuff you teach kids at Auskick.

Utter rubbish. You were watching on a TV screen 5000 km away. I was right there watching how flustered the players were during the first half only metres away. This is stuff you seriously cannot deduce from a tv broadcast, even if you can see the end results (ie crap disposal). They had no time to get rid of it in the way they normally do, and hence became highly hesitant and unsure of not only themselves and their own skills, but the skills of their teammates. I can only put some of the horrible kicks some players made (Ablett for example) down to the incredible pressure they were being placed under by Fremantle, who's Dead Eye Dick goalsneaks were more than capable of punishing. With our confidence shot to bit and many players obviously panicking, disposals like Ablett's OOBOTFs were an end result. Does this mean Ablett is a bad kick all of the time; I think not. Others may choose to disagree with that.

They tried to play their quick handpassing game, which the Freo forwards DID NOT LET THEM PLAY FROM THE OUTSET. Balls started to get dropped, and kicks and handpasses started going everywhere. Freo had done their job in putting us off our game, with horrible execution being the end result. From where I sit I can definitely hear whether players are A) talking and B) screaming out for the player in possession for the pill. On Saturday there was non of this. It was highly noticeable at times that there was little to no talk. On at least 2 occasions I saw Swans players go for the same mark without talking to each other. At kick-outs it was very very noticeable that at times there was NO SINGLE PLAYER wanting the footy kicked to them. Not only does this mean that in many cases the kicker-out (Tadgh or whomever) had no confidence in the end result of kicking it to this person. Mistakes tend to bread mistakes. And more often than not "clangitis" is highly contagious.

I can only put that down to application and confidence (and fitness to a lesser extent). These very same players played flawlessly against St Kilda; there were no skill errors that day. But as seen by quite drastic improvements when we get our game going, we are a team whose football is highly reliant to how confident we are. We play a high-risk high possession game out of defence. When it successful, few teams can counter it (flooding aside). We were going nowhere against Essendon and North, yet were able to slap on 4-5 burst in less than half a quarter.

For a short time after half time I had hopes that this would indeed be the case. But the damage was already done I guess. And skill errors (such as Bolton's horrible dropped chest mark in Q4) still occurred.

Hopefully the players will be fired up and mentally ready to perform on Saturday night. After the last 2 weeks, they have to be.

JF

[hammo]

I can't help but think all the attention the Swans received for such a good conversion rate last year was only going to come back and haunt us.

[Nico]

Jf, I have played and watched more games than you have had hot dinners.

The fact is the field kicking of a number of our players has not improved since they started their AFL careers. Why clubs recruit a lot of poor kickers never ceases to amaze me. Again, Brisbane does not have a poor kick that I can see.

Our players have poor kicking skills when they are under no pressure. The poor delivery into the forward line has been a low light all season and has cost us a number of games.

[chammond]

Originally posted by Nico
Why clubs recruit a lot of poor kickers never ceases to amaze me.

But this is nothing new. From memory, it's exactly what Ron Barassi was lamenting nearly a decade ago.

And I think it might have been Darren Gaspar that triggered the comments?

Maybe we should entice him back . . . he'd fit in well!

[liz]

Originally posted by Nico

The fact is the field kicking of a number of our players has not improved since they started their AFL careers. Why clubs recruit a lot of poor kickers never ceases to amaze me. Again, Brisbane does not have a poor kick that I can see.

Our players have poor kicking skills when they are under no pressure. The poor delivery into the forward line has been a low light all season and has cost us a number of games.

Nico

Do you disagree that the overall skill level of the Swans team was significantly better last year than this?

My belief is that anyone (OK - almost anyone, Dunks was an exception) who is playing regular AFL football can basically kick the ball and are able to regularly hit targets over 15-50m. What dictates whether they do it consistently comes down to confidence more than any other single factor - confidence in their own ability to execute the skill and confidence in their team mates to make position and collect possession.

While the Lions have a high skill level throughout their team, to a large degree it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole team has been playing with supreme confidence for year upon year - with justification. Because they are so confident in their team mates they feel as if they have more time, they feel as if they have more choices and they believe that even if they don't get their kick exactly right, their team mate will have the skill to still win possession. As a result, they execute the skill more precisely, more consistently than a player in a rabble team like the Hawks or Tigers.

[Nico]

Originally posted by lizz
Nico

Do you disagree that the overall skill level of the Swans team was significantly better last year than this?

My belief is that anyone (OK - almost anyone, Dunks was an exception) who is playing regular AFL football can basically kick the ball and are able to regularly hit targets over 15-50m. What dictates whether they do it consistently comes down to confidence more than any other single factor - confidence in their own ability to execute the skill and confidence in their team mates to make position and collect possession.

While the Lions have a high skill level throughout their team, to a large degree it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole team has been playing with supreme confidence for year upon year - with justification. Because they are so confident in their team mates they feel as if they have more time, they feel as if they have more choices and they believe that even if they don't get their kick exactly right, their team mate will have the skill to still win possession. As a result, they execute the skill more precisely, more consistently than a player in a rabble team like the Hawks or Tigers.

While I agree our skills were way better last year I still believe that there are many players in AFL who are terrible kicks. Dunkley was at the bottom of the pile but I am dismayed at the number of times that players like Bolton, Crouch and Matthews etc. have kicks under no perceivable pressure that fall short of targets that have 10metres on opponents, or go sideways or over heads.

Maybe the majority can hit targets over 15-50 metres at training but not on match days. The world is full of training champions.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by Nico
Jf, I have played and watched more games than you have had hot dinners.

The fact is the field kicking of a number of our players has not improved since they started their AFL careers. Why clubs recruit a lot of poor kickers never ceases to amaze me. Again, Brisbane does not have a poor kick that I can see.

I think clubs these days look for young players who are athletes rather than out and out footballers. I think it was Rocket who said that footballers of the 80s shat all over footballers of the 90s for this very reason. They may not have had the physical body strength and endurance of today's gym bunnies, but you could pretty much be assured that they could at least kick and handpass comfortably using their non-natural side. Even champions of recent years like Robert Harvey and Paul Kelly have mainly constructed kicking styles. They remain champions, but sometimes even under no pressure they would fire off kicks that A) were metres off-target and/or B) didn't even look like drop-punts at all.

How many footballers are in the same boat these days? I'd say lots. Great athletes with great aerobic capacity and an even better muscle definition, but often suspect skills and football brains.

JF

[footyhead]

Originally posted by lizz
While the Lions have a high skill level throughout their team,.....

..... As a result, they execute the skill more precisely, more consistently than a player in a rabble team like the Hawks or Tigers. [/B]

Or ...the Swans !
Who are still, despite the now customary honey moon season they performed for their new coach last year, a rabble.
The only differance being that despite the fact that the Tigers can beat us , and the Hawks consistantly look as if they could beat us, we will get no bonus draft picks to take into next years season. And no comfort in the fact that we are significantly better than anyone.No, the Swans will do what they have done for so long now , they will remain in the middle of the ladder.
Still unable to hit targets, still no where near really winning a premeirship, still a rabble.

[TheHood]

Originally posted by footyhead
Or ...the Swans !
Who are still, despite the now customary honey moon season they performed for their new coach last year, a rabble.
The only differance being that despite the fact that the Tigers can beat us , and the Hawks consistantly look as if they could beat us, we will get no bonus draft picks to take into next years season. And no comfort in the fact that we are significantly better than anyone.No, the Swans will do what they have done for so long now , they will remain in the middle of the ladder.
Still unable to hit targets, still no where near really winning a premeirship, still a rabble.

Phase 1) See where the players are and give them their heads!
Phase 2) Recruit youth and stabilise the list
Phase 3) Continue youth development and recruit 23-25 year old
KP Players
Phase 4) Make concerted effort for flag

We might have been in a poisition to snatch a flag last year out of sheer luck of injuries and a willingness to play for a new coach and each other, however we were not really in a position (development wise) to be premiers.

Realistically, this year has seen injuries and a greater emphasis from opposition coaches on shutting down our golden run. We have managed ok to date because we should have been in a worse position IMO (think 2002).

At the end of this year, we will be recruiting some bigger bodies (as Roos has stated) and will need to find our legs with these guys in 2005.

I think in season 2006, we will be playing quality footy consistently with bigger bodies, more mature superstars, Goodesy, Baz, Tadhg, Schneides & Bevo. The flag will be beckoning then.

[Mike_B]

Originally posted by JF_Bay22_SCG
I think clubs these days look for young players who are athletes rather than out and out footballers.

This was definitely the trend through the 90's, but it seems like things are starting to turn back to the footballer first, athlete second. You can get a kid who has footy instincts super fit, but you can't teach an athlete the instincts as to how to read the play.

Look at guys like Hasleby and Ling - definitely not athletes, but read the play so well, and in the case of Hasleby, he has really gotten himself fit over the last 2 years or so.

[j s]

Originally posted by Mike_B
This was definitely the trend through the 90's, but it seems like things are starting to turn back to the footballer first, athlete second. You can get a kid who has footy instincts super fit, but you can't teach an athlete the instincts as to how to read the play.

Look at guys like Hasleby and Ling - definitely not athletes, but read the play so well, and in the case of Hasleby, he has really gotten himself fit over the last 2 years or so.

Or Schneider! Definitely not a natural athlete but a great player.