Brownlow & Preconceived Ideas

[BonBon]

Originally posted by j s
Sydney
Waits
Again
Next
Season

True enough but I would prefer....

Sydney
Wins
Again
Next
Season

What about something for:
S
Y
D
N
E
Y

Anyone help me out with that?

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by BonBon
Sydney
Will
Awaken
New
Success

??????????? Having 2nd thoughts. I aint good at this stuff

Please join the

Signatures
Without
Acronyms
Now
Society

[ROK Lobster]

Still
Yearning (and)
Dreaming
Not
Enough (success)
Yet

[SimonH]

Re: Brownlow & Preconceived Ideas

Originally posted by sharpie
As another example of preconceived opinions of players, Willo had an outstanding 2002, yet was snubbed in the AA selection. In 2003, he had a good year again and earned AA selection, but I believe his 2003 was not quite as good as his 2002.

My point is I think this shows that the judges for these competitions (umpires for Brownlow, media & AFL bigwigs for AA) base a lot of their judgements on preconceived opinions they have formed over a period of time. I believe that it required the media to get behind Kirky and praise his efforts consistently over a long period before the umpires started to believe that he really was doing a good job, so this year they were looking out for him.

If this is the case, then it could be the same for how the umpires perceive Barry Hall. Over many years they have learned to fear him and see him as tough enough to stand up for himself. As such, perhaps subconsciously, they dont give him a fair go with free kicks. I seriously doubt the umpires simply judge a contest on its merits without any particular preconceived prejudices against certain players. Just as they appear to not simply judge the BOG players fairly after a game without preconceived opinions of those players.

I half-agree. Hird got 9 votes (although he did have an, ahem, interesting relationship with the umpires this year) and Buckley 4 votes. They would probably be the two most well-known and talked-about midfielders in the VFL-centric football world.

I think that Kirk's 2004 was actually superior to his 2003, although I'd concede there's almost nothing in it. The massive difference between his 2003 and 2004 votes shows that you do need to have some level of fame/general recognition for the umpires to consistently pick your name, but mere fame isn't enough. You need both the fame and the performance.

And judging by Riewoldt, Tredrea and BBBH's polling, you need to be playing in the midfield, spending lots of time under the umpires' noses, as well. Riewoldt and Tredrea's mediocre polling shows that it's where he plays, not the aggression with which which he plays, that limits BBBH's medal chances. It's hard to think of a game more obvious than the Carlton v Sydney clash where one man's effort pulled us from certain defeat to victory, yet BBBH got 1 vote for it. I think the unspoken philosophy of the umpires is that forwards do all the fancy stuff and look good, but the match is truly won and lost in the midfield. Which, these days, is not necessarily true.

[NMWBloods]

Unless you're a midfielder, and preferably a high-profile one, the chances of winning a Brownlow are slim to non existant.

[swansrule100]

Originally posted by barry
Crouchy in the GF sprint is our last chance at a medal this year.

they should have mascot wrestling... i think cyggie would be a chance

[Barry Schneider]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Unless you're a midfielder, and preferably a high-profile one, the chances of winning a Brownlow are slim to non existant.

Contested marks and set shots at goal obviously don't count as much as a handball receive.Should have two awards The Brownlow for midfielders and the Brownhigh for everyone else.

[sharpie]

Re: Re: Brownlow & Preconceived Ideas

Originally posted by BonBon
Ohhh, dude! He came 3rd! Something for him to be proud of.

The umps didn't really like Plugger but he got Brownlow. Maybe Barry Hall could be in the same boat. For all the mess he's in with umpires not liking him and not giving him a fair go with free kicks etc, part of it is because he loses his cool. He has settled down alot this year compared to last. He has given a great boost to the team.

I wasnt taking anything away from Kirky. Quite the opposite, as I was saying he deserved more recognition for last year's effort.

[BonBon]

Re: Re: Re: Brownlow & Preconceived Ideas

Originally posted by sharpie
I wasnt taking anything away from Kirky. Quite the opposite, as I was saying he deserved more recognition for last year's effort.

I know lol that was how I meant it

[BonBon]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
Please join the

Signatures
Without
Acronyms
Now
Society

HAHAHA omg you're so funny I nearly had an asthma attack + coughing fit! Holy Guacamole!

[penga]

kirky's 2003 was mainly shutting down the opposition's best midfielder. when he won the ball, it was normally a loose ball get.

kirky's 2004 was much more at the centre of packs and in-and-under. how many times a game would he on the bottom of a pack? derek humphrey-smith on WLF kept stressing that whoever consistently hands the ball back to the umpire, for a ball-up, usually gives a good impression to the umpires because they see that player so much, ie kirky

he ranked in the AFL this season:
#7 handballs (50% of his disposals)
#2 contested gets
#7 uncontested gets
#4 clearances
#3 tackles

i would suggest that these numbers far outweigh his 2003 season

[Barry Schneider]

Originally posted by penga
kirky's 2003 was mainly shutting down the opposition's best midfielder. when he won the ball, it was normally a loose ball get.

kirky's 2004 was much more at the centre of packs and in-and-under. how many times a game would he on the bottom of a pack? derek humphrey-smith on WLF kept stressing that whoever consistently hands the ball back to the umpire, for a ball-up, usually gives a good impression to the umpires because they see that player so much, ie kirky

he ranked in the AFL this season:
#7 handballs (50% of his disposals)
#2 contested gets
#7 uncontested gets
#4 clearances
#3 tackles

i would suggest that these numbers far outweigh his 2003 season

Couldn't have said it better myself.I wish the journos would watch a Swans game now and then so they wouldn't always call him a tagger.

[Mike_B]

Originally posted by penga
kirky's 2003 was mainly shutting down the opposition's best midfielder. when he won the ball, it was normally a loose ball get.

kirky's 2004 was much more at the centre of packs and in-and-under. how many times a game would he on the bottom of a pack? derek humphrey-smith on WLF kept stressing that whoever consistently hands the ball back to the umpire, for a ball-up, usually gives a good impression to the umpires because they see that player so much, ie kirky

he ranked in the AFL this season:
#7 handballs (50% of his disposals)
#2 contested gets
#7 uncontested gets
#4 clearances
#3 tackles

i would suggest that these numbers far outweigh his 2003 season

Spot on. Last year, Kirk's primary responsibility was to stop his opponent from getting his hands on the ball. This year, his primary responsibility was to get his own hands on the ball (thus stopping his opponent from doing so) and he did this extremely well.

[j s]

Originally posted by BonBon
What about something for:
S
Y
D
N
E
Y

Anyone help me out with that?

Some
Youthful
Dashing
Now
Experienced
Youngsters

[sharpie]

Originally posted by penga
kirky's 2003 was mainly shutting down the opposition's best midfielder. when he won the ball, it was normally a loose ball get.

kirky's 2004 was much more at the centre of packs and in-and-under. how many times a game would he on the bottom of a pack? derek humphrey-smith on WLF kept stressing that whoever consistently hands the ball back to the umpire, for a ball-up, usually gives a good impression to the umpires because they see that player so much, ie kirky

he ranked in the AFL this season:
#7 handballs (50% of his disposals)
#2 contested gets
#7 uncontested gets
#4 clearances
#3 tackles

i would suggest that these numbers far outweigh his 2003 season

i didnt realise his stats were anywhere near that good. they are very impressive stats.