Brownlow & Preconceived Ideas

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by penga
derek humphrey-smith on WLF kept stressing that whoever consistently hands the ball back to the umpire, for a ball-up, usually gives a good impression to the umpires because they see that player so much

I've noticed this and think it's absurd and why I think the Brownlow should change from umpire voting. J Bolton is a big one for this - notice that whenever at the bottom of the pack he fights extraordinarily hard to keep the ball and give it back to the umpire.

he ranked in the AFL this season:
#7 handballs (50% of his disposals)
#2 contested gets
#7 uncontested gets
#4 clearances
#3 tackles

i would suggest that these numbers far outweigh his 2003 season

They do.

[BAM_BAM]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
[B]I've noticed this and think it's absurd and why I think the Brownlow should change from umpire voting. J Bolton is a big one for this - notice that whenever at the bottom of the pack he fights extraordinarily hard to keep the ball and give it back to the umpire.


They do.

not trying to take away anything from Kirky, but I noticed him doing the same a lot this year maybe it's not the last man standing the one who fought hardest to get ball hard man thing I always thought it was afterall.

[Syd Swan]

Swans
Youngsters
Do
Nothing
Every
Year

So
We
Await
Next
Season

[BonBon]

Yeah well atleast it is being honest lmao

[motorace_182]

The SMH had Captain as the top tackler all year...

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Originally posted by Doctor J.
Absolutely spot on comment SR100.

We use Brownlow Medals as drink coasters we have so many of them.

"SCG THE BROWNLOW FACTORY"

great idea for a banner, that!

JF

[chammond]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
J Bolton is a big one for this - notice that whenever at the bottom of the pack he fights extraordinarily hard to keep the ball and give it back to the umpire.

Careful . . . your bias is showing . .

EVERY midfielder fights to be the one who comes out of the pack with the ball in his hands.

Cressa, for example, was far worse than Bolton or Kirk . . . he would have bitten your nose off rather than relinquish the ball when the whistle blew!

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by BAM_BAM
not trying to take away anything from Kirky, but I noticed him doing the same a lot this year maybe it's not the last man standing the one who fought hardest to get ball hard man thing I always thought it was afterall.

He definitely does it too, but didn't seem to do so as much before this year. Seems to have cottoned onto it as a good tactic!!

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by chammond
Careful . . . your bias is showing . .

EVERY midfielder fights to be the one who comes out of the pack with the ball in his hands.

Cressa, for example, was far worse than Bolton or Kirk . . . he would have bitten your nose off rather than relinquish the ball when the whistle blew!

Most midfielders do, although I'm not sure if all of them do. I notice Bolton as he is frequently on the bottom of packs for ball ups and is very ferocious at keeping control of the ball, especially after the whistle.

[Wil]

Re: Brownlow & Preconceived Ideas

Originally posted by sharpie

My point is I think this shows that the judges for these competitions (umpires for Brownlow, media & AFL bigwigs for AA) base a lot of their judgements on preconceived opinions they have formed over a period of time.

I recently wrote a psych paper on a similar topic. These are called "Rater Effects" and are essentially any biases that someone will have when they rate someone. In this case it probably is the "Halo Effect", which is where positive attributes are given to someone due to preconceived notions of that person (such as attractiveness or, in this case, being in the media more the year before).

What would give further support to this is the fact that you have a rotating umpire system so any one umpire can not have time to LOSE the rater effects he has about players. As these effects tend to diminish with time getting to know the subject and therefore lose bias. It would be interesting to see the Brownlow votes by Umpire and see how they vote. I bet some umpires favor some players due to these biases.

Btw, Kirk had a much much better 2004 than 2003. Last year he was a great (the best) tagger in the comp. This year was the year he finally became a footballer and the best midfielder in our team.

[penga]

Originally posted by sharpie
i didnt realise his stats were anywhere near that good. they are very impressive stats.

so it was actually YOUR preconceived ideas that were a little skewed...

[sharpie]

Originally posted by penga
so it was actually YOUR preconceived ideas that were a little skewed...

haha, got me! well, no actually, coz these were not preconceived ideas as much as simply a judgement made between 2 choices.

it just happens that i think i've been convinced from some of the stats for Kirky's 2004 that this year probably was his better year. still not entirely convinced though. he was brilliant last year, and it seems brilliant this year too, but in a different role. we had cressa and willo as our no.1 & 2 midfielders all of last year. Thus kirk was playing as the no.1 tagger, which he did amazingly well. This year however, without cressa, and willo for too much of the year, Kirk was left as our no.1 ball getter. He did it very well, but until I saw his stats, I did not think he was at the truely elite level this year.