Healy on the Swans

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by liz
My guess is that in the review of that game Roos pointed out all the skill errors they made and asked them to try to eliminate them. So this week they went back into their shells, didn't bother running for the ball and contesting (because if you don't have possession you can't make a skill error), and when they couldn't help but have possession worried themselves out of it.

I agree with your analysis until this point.

However the way I saw the Crows game, there was little change in attitude until the skill errors really started to hurt us.

I dont believe Roos pushed them back into their shells, I think the scoreboard pressure as a result of those mistakes did. Those clever handballs to free up a player started to get intercepted, and the massive risk Adelaide took by cramming so many players into our D50 on the kickouts worked in their favour.

It would have been a very different game if those intercepts had not come off (and the Jude to MOL handpass that was intercepted and prevented a certain goal was the back-breaker), I am certain we would have been looking at a very different result.

People are quick to forget that even the "heady" days of 2003 (when Cressa was a crucial component of the midfield in both skill and decision-making) had some shocking losses like this one too. And when we lost it was because the risk-taking did not pay off. The Heritage Round game against Hawthorn is a clear example.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
People are quick to forget that even the "heady" days of 2003 (when Cressa was a crucial component of the midfield in both skill and decision-making) had some shocking losses like this one too. And when we lost it was because the risk-taking did not pay off. The Heritage Round game against Hawthorn is a clear example.

Yep - rd 3 and 4 against Adelaide and Hawthorn (and a couple of games later in the year). However, that was 2 years ago and you'd think greater experience and familiarity would mean it less likely now. To me it shows that they haven't really progressed much since then and we pulled up short yet again that year.

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
To me it shows that they haven't really progressed much since then and we pulled up short yet again that year.

Were we meant to have? Thats got to be the shortest timeframe for any coach to turn around a middle-of-the-road team into a Premiership contender, and all without the benefits of high-placed draft picks to grab exciting new talent. And on the back of the retirements of four absolute champions and stalwarts.

How far has Pagan come with Carlton? Or Did Rhode go with the Bulldogs? And will Eade, Wallace, Craig and Clarkson only get a couple of years to work miracles?

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Were we meant to have?

Aren't we the third year into a five year plan? I would expect to see progress, however we have slipped if anything.

How far has Pagan come with Carlton? Or Did Rhode go with the Bulldogs? And will Eade, Wallace, Craig and Clarkson only get a couple of years to work miracles?

Pagan has taken Carlton from near bottom to a genuine finals contender. Rhode was crap. Steady improvement is not "work miracles".

How much time do you think we should wait?

[giant]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Were we meant to have? Thats got to be the shortest timeframe for any coach to turn around a middle-of-the-road team into a Premiership contender, and all without the benefits of high-placed draft picks to grab exciting new talent. And on the back of the retirements of four absolute champions and stalwarts.

How far has Pagan come with Carlton? Or Did Rhode go with the Bulldogs? And will Eade, Wallace, Craig and Clarkson only get a couple of years to work miracles?

Well, I dont think Swans 2002 were as bad as either of Richmond or Hawthorn 2004, and prob better than Bulldogs 2004.

Adelaide on the other hand I was quite impressed with - only basing my opinion on what I've seen of them, but they're a better side than people give them credit for - a more likely final 8 team than North I reckon.

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Aren't we the third year into a five year plan? I would expect to see progress, however we have slipped if anything.

This year (at Round 4) looks like a very even competition. In that light its hard to judge whether we have slipped. We were 1-3 at this time 2003 regardless.

Pagan has taken Carlton from near bottom to a genuine finals contender.

Crap. They are still behind us in the pecking order and are far more inconsistent. They wont win a premiership any sooner than us at this rate. They went from last without their star player, to still-not-in-the-eight even with him and with the prize scalp of Stevens courtesy of the pathetic performances. Hardly stellar.

How much time do you think we should wait?

If we are in year three of five then my maths say two more. Note that a five year plan to win the Premiership does not imply we will finish second in the fourth year. It only means we expect to give it a proper shake in 2007. Thats still at least 18 + 22 + 22 rounds from now.

[dendol]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
Crap. They are still behind us in the pecking order and are far more inconsistent. They wont win a premiership any sooner than us at this rate. They went from last without their star player, to still-not-in-the-eight even with him and with the prize scalp of Stevens courtesy of the pathetic performances. Hardly stellar.

No, but they won the FizWiz Cup and look to be on the up, compared to Sydney who seems to have peaked in 2003 and plateaued since.

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by giant
Well, I dont think Swans 2002 were as bad as either of Richmond or Hawthorn 2004, and prob better than Bulldogs 2004.

LOL. Remember that Roos took over halfway though. After Round 12 the Swans were 14th and well on their way to a wooden spoon. In hindsight, maybe we should have let Eade collect it and the two top draft picks before giving Roos the job

[dendol]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
LOL. Remember that Roos took over halfway though. After Round 12 the Swans were 14th and well on their way to a wooden spoon. In hindsight, maybe we should have let Eade collect it and the two top draft picks before giving Roos the job

If Roos didn't take over and do so well in those games in 2002, Terry Wallace would have been given the job in 2003 and beyond.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
This year (at Round 4) looks like a very even competition. In that light its hard to judge whether we have slipped. We were 1-3 at this time 2003 regardless.

I judge it by the quality of our performances. You obviously just judge by the actual results, which you demonstrated by refusing to consider any analysis over the Brisbane game.

Crap. They are still behind us in the pecking order and are far more inconsistent. They wont win a premiership any sooner than us at this rate. They went from last without their star player, to still-not-in-the-eight even with him and with the prize scalp of Stevens courtesy of the pathetic performances. Hardly stellar.

Never said it was stellar, but they have definitely improved.

If we are in year three of five then my maths say two more. Note that a five year plan to win the Premiership does not imply we will finish second in the fourth year. It only means we expect to give it a proper shake in 2007. Thats still at least 18 + 22 + 22 rounds from now.

Will be interesting to see if we can. By then Ball and Williams will have retired, Nicks will have probably retired, and Hall, Kirk, O'Loughlin, Scauble and Barry will be 30.

So we'll be dependent on the core group of guys who will be in their late 20s and are currently not performing that well or we rely on the new group of guys to be standouts.

Interesting to see where the remarkable improvement will come from...

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
LOL. Remember that Roos took over halfway though. After Round 12 the Swans were 14th and well on their way to a wooden spoon.

I fail to see how we could have picked up the wooden spoon when we already ahead of final points of the eventual winners of it (Carlton).

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by dendol
No, but they won the FizWiz Cup and look to be on the up, compared to Sydney who seems to have peaked in 2003 and plateaued since.

Again crap. They won a prize only half the clubs competed for, and its a knockout competition. Hardly representative of a 26 week tournament. They are actually quickly sinking since then regardless, with only one win from four attempts.

As for the Swans "plateauing", are you surprised? The improvement will only come once we have a settled and talent side across the paddock. Until we have star-quality players in the KPP roles, and a few genuine game breakers in the midfield, our performances will continue to fluctuate between Gabba-esque and Manuka-esque performances.

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I fail to see how we could have picked up the wooden spoon when we already ahead of final points of the eventual winners of it (Carlton).

You missed the point. The Swans were in as poor a state as Carlton, Hawthorn or Richmond when Roos took over in Round 12.

[giant]

Originally posted by Schneiderman
You missed the point. The Swans were in as poor a state as Carlton, Hawthorn or Richmond when Roos took over in Round 12.

Disagree. They'd lost at least 5 games by 8 pts or less some of whcih we wuz robbed. No comparison in terms of personnel as evidenced by our performance in 2003

[Schneiderman]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I judge it by the quality of our performances. You obviously just judge by the actual results, which you demonstrated by refusing to consider any analysis over the Brisbane game.

What were you saying after the insipid performances in Rounds 2 to 4 of 2003? We smashed Carlton Round 1 and then lost to Freo, Hawthorn and Adelaide that year. At that point, who would have predicted the finish. I certainly aint going to be a doomsayer just yet.

Interesting to see where the remarkable improvement will come from...

It certainly will. And there are over 60 games and two draft periods between now and then to come.