Sydney Uni + Collingwood U/18 Team

[DLH]

Not sure what pressure, if any, the Collingwood Academy is putting on the boys to align with SU in 09. They've still got to submit a clearance to leave their current club and you may find many decide to stay where they are and play Prem Cup instead of Challenge Cup.

They can direct the Scholarship boys on where to play which is fair enough. As for the others, the prospect of a possible Scholarship, plus a strong team with excellent coaches, not to mention access to gym and medical facilities and assistance with getting into courses, is a package which is pretty tough for your average club to compete with. So whilst "pressure" is not the right word, there are certainly a number of pretty strong "incentives".

As for a clearance, unless a player is unfinancial with their club a clearance is automatic.

From what I can gather the AFL felt that they could not refuse Sydney Uni an U/18 side, and in theory there is no bar on where you can get your players from. However, they do have the right to grade them as they see fit, so presumably felt that putting them into Challenge Cup might encourage the out of town kids to stay with their own clubs.

I'm not sure how a kid who has been playing Premier Division seniors with a club like Campbelltown would benefit in their development by then playing Challenge Cup U/18's the following year.

[tara]

They can direct the Scholarship boys on where to play which is fair enough. As for the others, the prospect of a possible Scholarship, plus a strong team with excellent coaches, not to mention access to gym and medical facilities and assistance with getting into courses, is a package which is pretty tough for your average club to compete with. So whilst "pressure" is not the right word, there are certainly a number of pretty strong "incentives".

As for a clearance, unless a player is unfinancial with their club a clearance is automatic.

From what I can gather the AFL felt that they could not refuse Sydney Uni an U/18 side, and in theory there is no bar on where you can get your players from. However, they do have the right to grade them as they see fit, so presumably felt that putting them into Challenge Cup might encourage the out of town kids to stay with their own clubs.

I'm not sure how a kid who has been playing Premier Division seniors with a club like Campbelltown would benefit in their development by then playing Challenge Cup U/18's the following year.

Who is to say the AFL graded them?

The have some very good footballers there and should be playing Prem Div just like the UNSW probably should have last year. If fairness to the Bulldogs though they asked to be moved to Prem Div after three rounds as they realised that they were stronger than they first estimated.

Why is a team like Balmain in Prem Div given the situation that they encountered last season?

It will be interested to see what pans out next season.

[DLH]

Who is to say the AFL graded them?

Given the fact that Sydney Uni have been clear all along in stating that this would be a side competing in Premier Cup, they must have done.

I can only assume that in theory the AFL did not agree with the concept, but felt that the best way to try to discourage it was to place them in Challenge Cup, thus eliminating some of the incentive for kids who would need to travel to be involved.

[tara]

Given the fact that Sydney Uni have been clear all along in stating that this would be a side competing in Premier Cup, they must have done.

I can only assume that in theory the AFL did not agree with the concept, but felt that the best way to try to discourage it was to place them in Challenge Cup, thus eliminating some of the incentive for kids who would need to travel to be involved.

I can appreciate what you are saying but at the end of the day these kids will be under the impression regardless of what comp the play the will be closely monitored by the Pies and their development will be fast tracked. Incentive enough.

[Bert]

What kind of incentive is it for the kids playing challenge cup, to play against a stacked side with the best players from both u/18's comps. Sydney AFL are about to make the U/18 competition into a farcical joke.

[stellation]

Stellation there are only a few kids listed on the scholarship scheme by the Pies. The point people are concerned about is that the more talented kids from the various regions of Sydney alledgedly received a letter inviting them to be part of the Collingwood under 18's Acadamey at Sydney Uni thus potentially creating a rep side of their own and stripping other clubs of talented players that they had spent time developing.

Ahhh, understood. Whilst that does suck, I have to be honest- that sort of thing has been going on for ages in other sports. Go to most basketball associations and you're guaranteed to hear stories about elite kids who've hit 16 and been approached to switch clubs because a coach somewhere can hook them up with better college contacts.

[Dunger]

Maybe one good thing to come out of it is that senior clubs will have a more watchful eye over their juniors, and look after them a lot more so that players will want to remain at their local club.

That's the best way I can see to combat this situation. Unfortunately some kids will be dazzled by the black and white/blue and yellow lights but hopefully the majority remain loyal to the club they started their footy with.

[The Student]

Student I could understand the reasons I was told for you playing three teams in 2nd Div in 07 and then two in 2008. You didnt have the resources to make a real go in first Div despite having an abundance of numbers - fair enough. Whats the excuse this time?

Apparently what you know about our club could be written on a pin head. The reason we have had two or three Second Divison sides is because a great number of our players in the lower grades have never played before. What would be the point of putting a team of predominantly first year footballers into First Divison when clubs like South West and Nor West before them get away with bullying sides in Second Div and carrying on like they invented football? Hopefully you will be able to sleep at night knowing that whilst we haven't won a premiership in Second Divison in several years we were placed up two grades for 2009. Pennant Hills on the other hand, who are reigning back to back premiers and have a team containing a good deal of guys with Premier Division Reserves experience have gone up one grade. I'm not sure why you think SUANFC should have been the ones thrown into the deep end or why you seem to hold us up to different standards than those you would judge other clubs by - what about the clubs who finished below us in both Premier Div grades this year, or those who didn't have enough numbers for four teams? How would you assess them?

Maybe one of the reasons we haven't made as big an impact as we would have liked in Premier Divison Seniors is that we don't have the recruiting power of other clubs. Our club is made up primarily of students - we lack some of the big bodied and key position players that other clubs have. But that said, we managed to finish sixth in our second year and made the Reserves GF so it could be said that we are doing a bit better than some might have expected.

Unfortunately I wasn't privy to the meeting with the AFL about our Colts team - it is disappointing for the club, however, our intention was to create an Under 18s team and we have achieved that goal thanks to the stellar work carried out by our President - who is an absolute genius - and several hardworking members of our committee. We don't really care what other clubs do or say - we are just happy to be able to provide a place for people to come and play footy and enjoy themselves whilst doing so. That we have a newly minted team in the U18's competition in Sydney is something that should be acknowledged and celebrated, not the focus of petty jealousy.

[Pekay]

Apparently what you know about our club could be written on a pin head. The reason we have had two or three Second Divison sides is because a great number of our players in the lower grades have never played before. What would be the point of putting a team of predominantly first year footballers into First Divison when clubs like South West and Nor West before them get away with bullying sides in Second Div and carrying on like they invented football? Hopefully you will be able to sleep at night knowing that whilst we haven't won a premiership in Second Divison in several years we were placed up two grades for 2009. Pennant Hills on the other hand, who are reigning back to back premiers and have a team containing a good deal of guys with Premier Division Reserves experience have gone up one grade. I'm not sure why you think SUANFC should have been the ones thrown into the deep end or why you seem to hold us up to different standards than those you would judge other clubs by - what about the clubs who finished below us in both Premier Div grades this year, or those who didn't have enough numbers for four teams? How would you assess them?

Maybe one of the reasons we haven't made as big an impact as we would have liked in Premier Divison Seniors is that we don't have the recruiting power of other clubs. Our club is made up primarily of students - we lack some of the big bodied and key position players that other clubs have. But that said, we managed to finish sixth in our second year and made the Reserves GF so it could be said that we are doing a bit better than some might have expected.

Unfortunately I wasn't privy to the meeting with the AFL about our Colts team - it is disappointing for the club, however, our intention was to create an Under 18s team and we have achieved that goal thanks to the stellar work carried out by our President - who is an absolute genius - and several hardworking members of our committee. We don't really care what other clubs do or say - we are just happy to be able to provide a place for people to come and play footy and enjoy themselves whilst doing so. That we have a newly minted team in the U18's competition in Sydney is something that should be acknowledged and celebrated, not the focus of petty jealousy.

I love that first line in bold....it also seems that youwould be able to write you knowledge of my club on a pinhead or even an atom.
After being starved of success in Div 1 for so many years, in fact since the old SFA two divisions were merged, we lost a ton of players to both Premier Division clubs and overseas deployment with the Defence Force, leaving us in the precarious position of nearing folding. After consultation with the League heads of the time (one of which, being an ex player of your "fine institution", didn't quite have the foresight required) it was decided that we field ONE team only, we offered to play Reserve Grade level, but with an uneven number of teams in that league, we were put into Division Two. I won't disagree with you, although we didn't so much bully teams, rather we named our best teams almost every week(certainly against the stronger teams, we rotated our weaker players against the weaker teams) and set about playing our best football. Not sure if you were playing that game against us at Bensons Lane, both teams undefeated at the time in 2005, but you boys tried to scare us off the ball early, and we thumped you back harder, and more often. Rather enjoyable from my perspective, both from the point of view that we were at last competitive against the front runner of the comp(and Reigning Premier i think?) and that we had been "bullied" by your boys the previous few years, and dare i say, you blokes thought you invented footy at Sydney Uni??
Sure, South West followed our template as well, always renowned as a physical team in their time in the 1st Division, but perhaps it was our domination of the 2nd Division over two years that strengthened teams like Sydney Uni, Bulldogs and Penno(Who we beat by 30 goals one year, and only just knocked off by 30 points both times the following year?Nice one Doaksy, super coach that bloke)
But enough on that, thats in the past now, sadly for me!And your reasoning for leaving teams in 2nd Division is partly justified, but with the Blues always occupying a top 3 or 4 spot over those 3 or 4 years, surely you could've selected a strong enough team to have a crack at 1st Division Snrs and Twos, and the rest can play in Golds jumpers, for the fledgling players? Would've een about as competitive as us going back up TWO (Which your website wrongly claims hasn't been done in SAFL in regards to your blues for next year i noticed)from 06 to 07 i am sure.But again, in the past, restructure has sorted that out.
I have mixed thoughts on your 18s bid, i think you should be applauded on this (hence,2nd line in bold, Jason has great vision, although he rides a scooter.....no real footballer does that!!) but perhaps having such a strong team playing in Challenge Cup isn't right(and i dont have the facts, this could very well be a League decision as suggested) as was seen with Bulldogs running through undefeated in 2008. But at least you are on the right track, and i do look forward to seeing how they go, although i think its a shame that Pemriff will potentially lose their two best juniors in Perry and the other young bloke (name escapes me)but it was going to happen eventually anyway, whether they make the AFL or not.
Good luck to you and your lot in 2009 Student, and may your 18s "bully" the rest of the Challenge Cup pack!!!

[ShortHalfHead]

Well said PK. You are a good bloke and your post makes a lot of sense. A lot more than Student, who with his one eyed views, will be destined to stay a student for many years. Can't work out the differenece between poaching and development.

"We don't really care what other clubs do or say - we are just happy to be able to provide a place for people to come and play footy"

Only happy if you can promise the world to starry eyed youngsters from afar who are already being provided a place to play footy.
You can't even try and develop your own, I know a kid that lives in Glebe that wasn't picked in the team. His spot was obviously taken from a Westie star.
Good ol' Rod and his crew don't want to develop a Uni Team. They want to win flags. They wouldn't know how to pronounce development.

[RPM]

Student,
If your committee are so hard working how come thay need all this assitance in poaching players try being on a committee where we have had to do so many hard yards over so many years in that most of our committee have had to play a game either before or after the local U16's have played and have had to rush from one end of Sydney to the other so as we are seen to be supporting the local boys and taking the whole team to train with one of the local U16 teams at least once a month (which i have no problem with as that is what it is all about), as far as your comments to Tara you must be the biggest wingnut out there if you belive that "because a great number of our players in the lower grades have never played before" gives you the wright to play Premier Divison First grade players in the Second Division comp when they have the week off, stop exploiting loop holes and start becoming a fair dinkum side that isnt just chasing flags.

[tara]

Okay now for a reality check Studnet.

South West never bullied any team as you say. We have had to pull ourselves up for nothing just to field teams in D2. I named teams in our finals that in the end were the only fit players available and them some not so. We dont have an abundance of numbers like you who have never played before otherwise you would have seen them.

We have busted our arse over the past three years with juniors etc so we never end up in the same position again. Whilst in its infancy we will continue to do so as it is intergral to moving forward.

One thing you can count on though is we will never take the soft option and at each oportunity as we grow we will seek to play at a high level and not chase premerships for the sake of it

As for your inexperienced players at lower divs please dont make the rest of us laugh.

[DLH]

But at least you are on the right track, and i do look forward to seeing how they go, although i think its a shame that Pemriff will potentially lose their two best juniors in Perry and the other young bloke (name escapes me)but it was going to happen eventually anyway, whether they make the AFL or not.

Pekay, at this stage it looks more like five blokes that we'll have to clear for this team.

I can live with the two boys on Scholarships, that's fine, they will and should do as Collingwood asks. It's the others that I have an issue with (and this is not aimed at the boys themselves who you can't blame given what is being put in front of them).

So much for the development of western Sydney clubs when the best and brightest youngsters get cherrypicked, there's no way we can compete with what a club like Sydney Uni can provide.

[Pekay]

That is a shame considering the good work thats been done in regards to your 18s over the last few years. So they aren't lost to our area altogether,East Coast came up with the Nor-West Alliance,which was great timing considering what happened with the RamJets team.This way,the players coming through juniors and 18s have a clear and defined pathway to follow if they wish to continue in the North West area.Should a player wish to continue at a higher level after 18s,he goes to East Coast,however,say a young bloke wants to continue playing but takes up a trade-which most out our way do-his time is restricted in terms of training and wkend so he can play with the Jets. A great initiative that will pay dividends in the future.

[DLH]

It's a good initiative mate, hopefully it pays off for the Jets into the future.

Unfortunately, there are no Premier Division clubs within 30-40 minutes of us, which has historically been one of our issues in picking up players and coaches.

The closest would be East Coast and Campbelltown, who already have yourselves and Camden on their doorsteps to form alliances with.