Sydney Uni + Collingwood U/18 Team

[The Student]

I have been already called a liar re the scholarships and UAI points by student (or was I the half truth component?)

Now I am told each component is basically a myth. Let me in on the secret then, what does "basically a myth" mean? Is it like being "a little bit pregnant"

Last post on this from me - just to clear the scholarship thing up - SU Sport provide a limited number of scholarships for student athletes for each sport. About half a dozen are allotted to SUANFC - I don't know how many are afforded to rugby but it is probably about 10 times that number! They are worth anywhere between $1000 and $4000 and can be put toward HECS, textbooks etc. As for free UAI points, that is a complete untruth - however if a student athlete is near to a UAI cut-off point for course entry they will be considered e.g. if they get 85 and need 86. That is no different to what full fee paying students are entitled to, for example.

Tara, I recall the day you speak of. It was played in bad spirits - the lop sided nature of the game certainly didn't help because the focus wasn't on the footy as it should have been. That said, we had a bloke king-hit - I don't care how much someone is provoked, there is no excuse for punching someone in the face. If it was done on the street you'd be looking at an assault charge. I am not aware of the actions of our executive in the week following the game and am not going to make any statement on that. Hopefully this year on field relations will be better between our clubs (I think we only meet in Div 4?) and your top side will relish the challenge of being in a more competitive environment in Div 3 this season. Best of luck for the season.

[Bert]

I think we'll all agree that none of our clubs are perfect and certainly most are trying their best to be successful. I'm involved in junior football now and have played in the past in various Sydney teams.

On the Syd Uni article, I think its justified. The club certainly has been about the promotion of the code for a long period and I believe along with UNSW back in 99 and 2000 were the impetus for left over guys getting a game of footy and this became the basis for Second Division as it has been up til last year. The fact that they're looking to be successful at the same time and the understanding that these things work somewhat hand in hand (even where the game grows beyond your capacity to service and becomes the impetus for a new club to be born etc).

On the junior development front, they are one of the few clubs to use all of the AFL-funded club incentive hours to go out to schools and junior clubs in the inner city, inner west and eastern suburbs and develop them, they also do un-funded hours and have provided coaches and various initiatives wherever asked. This has been more prevalent within the last four years where some more significant effort was put in relative to the more ad hoc basis and ebbs and flows with various volunteers in years/decades before. They've consistently put their hands up when other neighbouring clubs said they either did not have the resources or the inclination.

Whats certainly appears the key to growth in Sydney and what we term success is the raw conversion of junior numbers to senior numbers, school participants to junior club participants, fans and occasional tv perusers to physical members and interacting in the grass roots community. Its all about environment - our clubs working hard to create the sort of positive environment that pulls these people in and keeps them. The more you have, the more likely you will have greater depth of talent and administration support, financial options etc etc. I think too often clubs are too worried about protecting their own backyard and not being proacrtive enough within this simple concept.

The Syd Uni initiative is simply providing a better environment and that should be the spure for others to improve theirs also and we'll slowly get a better result if we all get pulled in this direction. What kid wouldn't want the opportunity to be involved with such great resources, support and coaching. On the large scholarships and 5 UAI points, both are basically myths. Mostly the benefits of Syd Uni scholarships are access to the facilities and coaches etc. The Rugby program and bigger sports certainly are better rewarded I think you will find. In a VSU environment, there certainly isn't the funding for this type of cash. They'll attract kids because the environment is simply better than down the road.

Lets stop catering for lowest common denominator. Easier said then done I know, but we in our own clubs have to make some hard decisions as well as those in AFL-house.

Thanks for that Jason.

[tara]

Thanks for that Jason.

Please tell me you didnt get your nose out of line with the one of the few clubs comments Bert - We in the know, know about the work that you and others did with local schools at the AFLs request outside of the the normal scope of activities during the last few seasons - it wasnt just SU who were involved in these activities.

[Bert]

Apparently Sydney Uni are the only club to get out to local schools, and juniors. No wonder we love them so..........

[Spectrum]

I'm not from Sydney Uni but my junior club certainly has seen them very active and they have reacted to requests for assistance far more readily than some of the other clubs. I actually think most of the clubs are slowly beginning to pull their weight more, but its got a long way to go. And I know resources aren't always there but its so important to the survival and success of senior clubs and part of what has held back the Sydney AFL IMO. If you don't think its an issue go ask a few junior clubs around the place. I know many would be putting their hands up for some help with coaching etc, many are struggling to have quality coaches etc. I reckon a few would also say they haven't heard much from some of their nearby clubs or seen tangible assistance (again so we are clear not all but still a number would say this).

For the record, who said that they were the only ones that did this. Obviously other clubs have done this stuff and some more than others. Some do it better than others even. Earlier this thread was bemoaning that they have not done any junior development and simply looked to recruit the cream of other areas. I just wanted to mention my experience/knowledge as that sentiment was totally incorrect.

Lets not carried away with the sniping.

[Pace To Burn]

I'm not from Sydney Uni but my junior club certainly has seen them very active and they have reacted to requests for assistance far more readily than some of the other clubs. I actually think most of the clubs are slowly beginning to pull their weight more, but its got a long way to go. And I know resources aren't always there but its so important to the survival and success of senior clubs and part of what has held back the Sydney AFL IMO. If you don't think its an issue go ask a few junior clubs around the place. I know many would be putting their hands up for some help with coaching etc, many are struggling to have quality coaches etc. I reckon a few would also say they haven't heard much from some of their nearby clubs or seen tangible assistance (again so we are clear not all but still a number would say this).

For the record, who said that they were the only ones that did this. Obviously other clubs have done this stuff and some more than others. Some do it better than others even. Earlier this thread was bemoaning that they have not done any junior development and simply looked to recruit the cream of other areas. I just wanted to mention my experience/knowledge as that sentiment was totally incorrect.
Lets not carried away with the sniping.

I dont think thats the case at all. No-one from what ive seen said that, what we all said was that they were pinching al the talented kids by offering false hope/promises etc of being involved with Collingwoods development team to entice them to Syd Uni. Out of all the kids even on scholarships since there inception how many have made it onto lists or even Rookie listed. ill save you the time, not @@@@en many. They proclaim they are not holding kids to ransom(see earlier quote to which i replied about Gun to head etc that wasnt responded to, Surprise suprise) but what is a kid on a scholarship who has dreams of making it going to say when told to play there and leave his club. Some of these kids and parents will now have to travel 1-2 hours each way for training two nights a week as well as every game day(very convieniant) The league should grow some balls and contact Collingwood and stop the whole farce IMHO. If the kids are good enough theyll make it just like everyone before them. For the clubs with huge nos to draw on this obviously doesnt affect them, but for others, to loose two or three senior players through no fault of there own, when they are more than happy to stay is wrong

[Bert]

Well said Pace. What Sydney Uni have done will be wonderful for their club. I am sure that in 5 years they will win the Premier Division and will be the dominent club in the league.
But my problem is that it is at the exspense of every other Sydney AFL club.
It was my belief the League restructured the whole competition in an attempt to even out the standards through each league, and stop the continual hundred point losses some teams were having which drove away players. Yet the league not only allow Sydney Uni to cherrypick the best kids from each club, but they help them to do it. And whatsmore, they put them in the weaker of the two U/18 competitions!!
Half of our kids will be 1st or 2nd year players, I can only imagine what it will do to their confidence after being pumped by 200 points by the Sydney (Rep side) Uni outfit.

[Pace To Burn]

Student and Spectrum, you really disapoint me. You only seem to respond to the remarks that suit you, not the ones that are a bit harder to explain . Oh well, we'll just have to see how this one plays out then. A little Birdy tells me its not quite over yet boys

[bj19591]

Well said Pace. What Sydney Uni have done will be wonderful for their club. I am sure that in 5 years they will win the Premier Division and will be the dominent club in the league.
But my problem is that it is at the exspense of every other Sydney AFL club.
It was my belief the League restructured the whole competition in an attempt to even out the standards through each league, and stop the continual hundred point losses some teams were having which drove away players. Yet the league not only allow Sydney Uni to cherrypick the best kids from each club, but they help them to do it. And whatsmore, they put them in the weaker of the two U/18 competitions!!
Half of our kids will be 1st or 2nd year players, I can only imagine what it will do to their confidence after being pumped by 200 points by the Sydney (Rep side) Uni outfit.

They are playing in the challenge cup? Phew! I play for campbelltown in the premier cup and i was really worried they were going to come in and absolutely pump everyone. That's weird though because a guy from my team is with the pies and will be playing for them and the better 18s comp. is too easy for him.

[Pace To Burn]

They are playing in the challenge cup? Phew! I play for campbelltown in the premier cup and i was really worried they were going to come in and absolutely pump everyone. That's weird though because a guy from my team is with the pies and will be playing for them and the better 18s comp. is too easy for him.

If your talking about Tom Young Bj, he wont be playing 18s. Will just depend if it is there or at Monarch. My tips monarch

[ShortHalfHead]

Good luck with the Blues this year. I heard they had lost a few but gained some too. Hope Tom stays at Campbelltown. That is where he got originally spotted so no need to do the extra travel to get recognition.
Did hear a rumour that a Prem Cup 18's club was looking shaky to be able to field a side. Don't know who though.
Even heard that Uni might have to finally ask a couple of their locals to play in the 18's with a few stars electing not to go there.

[unconfuseme]

I think the talk of this team "pumping" everyone is a bit over blown ... yes they have 6 scholarship players, but a couple of those will probably play seniors anyway. I stand to be corrected, but Penno will probably have at least that many scholarship boys in their 18's, and there are another 40 or so who are spread around the other clubs. No question they will be well coached, but I wouldn't be taking any silly odds about them, even in the Challenge Cup.

[ShortHalfHead]

Good luck to all in the State Zone trials commencing at Coffs Harbour today (Under 18's). Will be interested to see how many more Rod Carter will be approaching, as he will be up there. Of course, one would assume that the Pioneers 18's coach and 2008 Sydney Uni player/coach would be above reproach ! Time will tell.

[Pace To Burn]

I think the talk of this team "pumping" everyone is a bit over blown ... yes they have 6 scholarship players, but a couple of those will probably play seniors anyway. I stand to be corrected, but Penno will probably have at least that many scholarship boys in their 18's, and there are another 40 or so who are spread around the other clubs. No question they will be well coached, but I wouldn't be taking any silly odds about them, even in the Challenge Cup.

We take your point Grasshopper, and it would be a good one except that they are playing in the challenge cup and Penno are in the premier cup as well as most of the other kids on scholarships. Its not only kids on scholarships with Collingwood they have approached, they sent letters to basically every kid in the 16s development squads from last year and this year asking them to come be a part of the collingwood development program.

[unconfuseme]

I think we'll all agree that none of our clubs are perfect and certainly most are trying their best to be successful. I'm involved in junior football now and have played in the past in various Sydney teams.

On the Syd Uni article, I think its justified. The club certainly has been about the promotion of the code for a long period and I believe along with UNSW back in 99 and 2000 were the impetus for left over guys getting a game of footy and this became the basis for Second Division as it has been up til last year. The fact that they're looking to be successful at the same time and the understanding that these things work somewhat hand in hand (even where the game grows beyond your capacity to service and becomes the impetus for a new club to be born etc).

On the junior development front, they are one of the few clubs to use all of the AFL-funded club incentive hours to go out to schools and junior clubs in the inner city, inner west and eastern suburbs and develop them, they also do un-funded hours and have provided coaches and various initiatives wherever asked. This has been more prevalent within the last four years where some more significant effort was put in relative to the more ad hoc basis and ebbs and flows with various volunteers in years/decades before. They've consistently put their hands up when other neighbouring clubs said they either did not have the resources or the inclination.

Whats certainly appears the key to growth in Sydney and what we term success is the raw conversion of junior numbers to senior numbers, school participants to junior club participants, fans and occasional tv perusers to physical members and interacting in the grass roots community. Its all about environment - our clubs working hard to create the sort of positive environment that pulls these people in and keeps them. The more you have, the more likely you will have greater depth of talent and administration support, financial options etc etc. I think too often clubs are too worried about protecting their own backyard and not being proacrtive enough within this simple concept.

The Syd Uni initiative is simply providing a better environment and that should be the spure for others to improve theirs also and we'll slowly get a better result if we all get pulled in this direction. What kid wouldn't want the opportunity to be involved with such great resources, support and coaching. On the large scholarships and 5 UAI points, both are basically myths. Mostly the benefits of Syd Uni scholarships are access to the facilities and coaches etc. The Rugby program and bigger sports certainly are better rewarded I think you will find. In a VSU environment, there certainly isn't the funding for this type of cash. They'll attract kids because the environment is simply better than down the road.

Lets stop catering for lowest common denominator. Easier said then done I know, but we in our own clubs have to make some hard decisions as well as those in AFL-house.

Not according to the 17 y.o. I spoke to last week ... ?