Whos going where in 2010

[Mug Punter]

High and Mighty?

For what it is worth I have been playing/coaching the said region for 20 years. I have stayed entirely that time at one club - Initially Bankstown then SWS. If you think Western Syd can suddenly support more teams then you are the fool - the overall competition is heading in the right direction but considering where it was when I started playing in 92 it has a long way to go.

And yes I still query what your agenda is given that your posts on the other boards here suggest you think GWS is doomed.

Surely I have no agenda, just opinions.

Just to clarify the link between my views and Team GWS and expansion....

Yes, I happen to believe that Team GWS is ill-conceived as the AFL massively under-estimates how strong NRL and soccer are there and how weak AFL is. Your comments re the struggles at SWS are consistent with this. I'd love to be wrong as two strong viable AFL teams here would be great.

My point being.... IF Team GWS is to be successful long term then surely they will need to be based on strong grassroots foundations (i.e. a "footy culture" in the greater west), part of which must be more senior clubs in that area - without this then the whole Team GWS will be a house of cards. That an AFL team can be sustainable LONG TERM with 2 senior teams (Parra and Penrith) in it's direct catchment area is ludicrous.

Not saying it will be easy or cheap (then again neither will Team GWS) or that it could happen next year (or even the year after) but surely some of the $200M should be spent at the grassroots level and surely that will eventually lead to new senior clubs west of Parramatta within the next 5 or so years which I think would be good for the game.

[Tom Wills]

Surely I have no agenda, just opinions.

Just to clarify the link between my views and Team GWS and expansion....

Not saying it will be easy or cheap (then again neither will Team GWS) or that it could happen next year (or even the year after) but surely some of the $200M should be spent at the grassroots level and surely that will eventually lead to new senior clubs west of Parramatta within the next 5 or so years which I think would be good for the game.

Mug,

I absolutely agree with your post, both from a long term sustainability view, but also for those of who truly love AFL (i mean Footy), we would love to see it as a strong local comp, before another National team. I still get as much enjoyment from reading Country results and interstate results as a review of the last AFL round.

2.5% of the 200mill; 5 Mill!!! - could go a long way to growing grass roots football in Sydney's West.

[Pekay]

Mug,

I absolutely agree with your post, both from a long term sustainability view, but also for those of who truly love AFL (i mean Footy), we would love to see it as a strong local comp, before another National team. I still get as much enjoyment from reading Country results and interstate results as a review of the last AFL round.

2.5% of the 200mill; 5 Mill!!! - could go a long way to growing grass roots football in Sydney's West.

Agree with this 100%. Besides Blacktown and Purser, can you tell me a grassroots ground worthy of a showpiece in the greater west? You have Rosedale, a great surface and facility but, let's face it Colesy, it is a cricket ground. Greygums is a dustbowl, and thats being nice, Bensons No 1 is a great ground, but again, dominated by cricket. Gipps, I'm not sure how long until it's right to go but that will be a decent ground (Perhaps cricket?) and stuff all junior grounds in between. Our No 2 oval is at least 2-5 years off, but will be solely football, no turf wickets, fenced, with clubhouse, but the 2-5 year plan has only recently been submitted. Footy out here is not strong or big enough to sustain an AFL team, it may help the cause, but look at the Swans, almost 30 years to make it work, and still, the sporting public of Sydney are a fickle mob, fair weather if you like. They only show up when it suits them. We don't have the footy culture ingrained into us like they do down in the south, and frankly, we never will up here. Support the roots and the tree will grow.
Maybe Western Suburbs should head out to Blacktown, or change their name to Inner Western Suburbs.

[tara]

Agree with this 100%. Besides Blacktown and Purser, can you tell me a grassroots ground worthy of a showpiece in the greater west? You have Rosedale, a great surface and facility but, let's face it Colesy, it is a cricket ground. Greygums is a dustbowl, and thats being nice, Bensons No 1 is a great ground, but again, dominated by cricket. Gipps, I'm not sure how long until it's right to go but that will be a decent ground (Perhaps cricket?) and stuff all junior grounds in between. Our No 2 oval is at least 2-5 years off, but will be solely football, no turf wickets, fenced, with clubhouse, but the 2-5 year plan has only recently been submitted. Footy out here is not strong or big enough to sustain an AFL team, it may help the cause, but look at the Swans, almost 30 years to make it work, and still, the sporting public of Sydney are a fickle mob, fair weather if you like. They only show up when it suits them. We don't have the footy culture ingrained into us like they do down in the south, and frankly, we never will up here. Support the roots and the tree will grow.
Maybe Western Suburbs should head out to Blacktown, or change their name to Inner Western Suburbs.

Pete, Rosedale was purpose built for AFL NOT cricket - first and foremost it was for Australian Rules Football. The land was donated by Leo Sullivan - I have a large team photo at home dating back to the 1940's with Leo (club captain) football in hand on Rosedale.

I dont know why you needed to take a swipe but look around - both Blacktown and BP are also cricket grounds and were built in conjuction with Cricket NSW were they not.

Also isnt the home of our game actually a cricket ground?

I actually wouldnt be surpised if Rosedale is the only senior ground in Sydney that was built with only AFL in mind but am happy to be corrected.

[Pekay]

Pete, Rosedale was purpose built for AFL NOT cricket - first and foremost it was for Australian Rules Football. The land was donated by Leo Sullivan - I have a large team photo at home dating back to the 1940's with Leo (club captain) football in hand on Rosedale.

I dont know why you needed to take a swipe but look around - both Blacktown and BP are also cricket grounds and were built in conjuction with Cricket NSW were they not.

Also isnt the home of our game actually a cricket ground?

I actually wouldnt be surpised if Rosedale is the only senior ground in Sydney that was built with only AFL in mind but am happy to be corrected.

Not sure where I took a swipe in my post. Just saying, there are stuff all footy grounds in the west of Sydney, and they want to put in an AFL team? It's a bit much this early.
Rosedale is a fine ground, I was aware it was built for footy, but most people who know what Rosedale is will say, its a cricket ground. Same with Bensons. Same with Village Green. As for BOP & BP, yes correct, both built for dual purpose, but has Purser been used for an elite cricket match? It has for an elite AFL match, so that's what Joe Public will identify it as until such time as a Pura Cup trial, or match, or whatever those blokes call it these days. And when Swans-Blues play on BOP in March, the same will be said of that ground.

[DLH]

Greygums is a dustbowl, and thats being nice

We've been trying to get on to Howell Oval (Penrith's grade cricket ground)for at least ten years without any luck.

They're in the process of spending $3 million of taxpayers money there to upgrade the facility and it's going to sit idle for six months of the year. We haven't asked to train there, just play our home games.

So much for maximising the use of taxpayer dollars

And Mug Punter, I don't know where you think all these senior players are going to magically appear from to create more clubs west of Parramatta, because they don't exist.

We've been living that reality for almost 30 years.

[Hawknik]

[QUOTE=tara;467340] I dont know why you needed to take a swipe but look around

Settle Tara, settle... he wasn't taking a swipe

I even think you yourself have mentioned on here previously when the council have closed the grounds due to weather, something along the lines of them worrying about cricket...

I think it is a hybrid cricket/AFL ground, just the pereception it has. Do you guys have free run on it when you start back at training in early Jan or are only allowed on patches?

[Pekay]

If you can't run on the pitch, it's a cricket ground. Our sports counicl decided in their wisdom to rope off the wickets during winter on our training nights. Unless they want a libel suit, we took them down, left them at the groundsman's door, and used the middle of the ground as much as anywhere else. Best thing for it. We now have a slightly raised wicket area for drainage during rain.
And I reckon a purpose built footy ground is one without a wicket, synthetic or turf. Our new ground has no pitch in the middle, makes life so much easier. The surface is soft and true, in immaculate condition.
Pretty sure Gipps doesn't (or didn't before redevelopment) have a wicket, greygums as well?

[DLH]

Pretty sure Gipps doesn't (or didn't before redevelopment) have a wicket, greygums as well?

Greygums used to have a synthetic pitch that was covered with soil during winter, but it was removed a number of years ago.

Didn't stop the flog who got us kicked off of Dukes Oval from claiming that Greygums was "purpose built for AFL"

[Pekay]

Greygums used to have a synthetic pitch that was covered with soil during winter, but it was removed a number of years ago.

Didn't stop the flog who got us kicked off of Dukes Oval from claiming that Greygums was "purpose built for AFL"

I thought it did. Greygums has improved alot since the installation of the grey water system. Still a tough deck if you lose your footing. But certainly streets ahead of Gwawley and Trumper.
If the AFL were serious, they'd push locaql councils for you blokes to use Dukes again, or, as discussed many times over, Howell Oval for the ultimate exposure. But the Panthers will stop that from happening.

[DLH]

I thought it did. Greygums has improved alot since the installation of the grey water system. Still a tough deck if you lose your footing. But certainly streets ahead of Gwawley and Trumper.
If the AFL were serious, they'd push locaql councils for you blokes to use Dukes again, or, as discussed many times over, Howell Oval for the ultimate exposure. But the Panthers will stop that from happening.

You're right, while it's certainly not perfect, it's better than it used to be with the grey water that it now gets.

I know that the AFL meet with Penrith Council on a monthly basis in relation to facilities. There's currently a proposal being developed for a major upgrade of Greygums which is promising, although personally I'm not sure that it would be my number one option from an exposure point of view.

As for Howell, now that the funding has been split due to the fact that the double-sided stand at the Southern end is no longer a goer, cricket are getting $3 million for themselves, which is incredible given that in reality they are not much bigger than our clubs.

[Pekay]

You're right, while it's certainly not perfect, it's better than it used to be with the grey water that it now gets.

I know that the AFL meet with Penrith Council on a monthly basis in relation to facilities. There's currently a proposal being developed for a major upgrade of Greygums which is promising, although personally I'm not sure that it would be my number one option from an exposure point of view.

As for Howell, now that the funding has been split due to the fact that the double-sided stand at the Southern end is no longer a goer, cricket are getting $3 million for themselves, which is incredible given that in reality they are not much bigger than our clubs.

The fact that its a retention pit is also of concern. We had similar problems at Wrights Reserve when the Bombers moved there from Lalor Park. So much room around, but they can't find anything better than a run off? Not just Greygums mind you, Cook & Banks, Wrights all have stormwater run-off feeding into their grounds.
We'd love to have a trial on Richmond Park on a saturday afternoon, would get a decent crowd roll up. They probably wouldn't watch the whole game, but still, its exposure for us and footy in general. Try as we might, no dice.
The reason our development application is being pushed a little harder of late is beacuse Cricket want exclusive use of the main clubhouse in the next few years, so they are willing to part fund our plans on No 2. I'd say in about 5 years we'll have a solid set-up on the 2nd ground-scoreboard, strong lighting, fence, warm-up area, and a 2 storey clubroom. (plus a members shed on the far wing!)

[tara]

[QUOTE=Hawknik;467356]

I dont know why you needed to take a swipe but look around

Settle Tara, settle... he wasn't taking a swipe

I even think you yourself have mentioned on here previously when the council have closed the grounds due to weather, something along the lines of them worrying about cricket...

I think it is a hybrid cricket/AFL ground, just the pereception it has. Do you guys have free run on it when you start back at training in early Jan or are only allowed on patches?

We have free run so long as we are wearing runners and avoid the wicket - it doesnt have goal posts so that is a pain - we will be training at another new venue "Kokoda" at Harris Creek which has posts all year round in a week. The plan at the moment is to train one night at each venue weekly at this stage.

[Mug Punter]

And Mug Punter, I don't know where you think all these senior players are going to magically appear from to create more clubs west of Parramatta, because they don't exist.

We've been living that reality for almost 30 years.

Agree with you 100% given the current environment where clubs are just left to fight their own battles with little or no NSWAFL support (largely because that body is massively underfunded to generate growth). I'm not trying to belittling Penrith's efforts. Read my post and I am saying in 5 or so years (i.e. todays 10 - 14 year olds). I am also saying with huge AFL investment.

With AFL getting into the local schools in a big way. With the Junior Clubs (St Clair, Rooty Hill, Hills Lions etc) being expanded and new ones created. With genuine investment in the new clubs and existing ones for infrastructure and advertising/admin support. With proper business planning.

Surely you are not that negative???

[Mug Punter]

And Mug Punter, I don't know where you think all these senior players are going to magically appear from to create more clubs west of Parramatta, because they don't exist.

Perhaps Team GWS/AFL should have a look at the South Sydney area where we have the fastest growing junior team in the country (Maroubra) plus Moore Park juniors. New senior club also in the wings too apparently.

Obviously wasn't impossible for them.....