2011- Promotion & relegation

[Pekay]

Looking forward, who will be the teams going up and down after season 2010?
Is it better for two teams to go up and down, or just the Premiers for their division?


Premier- looks set in stone that none will be relegated, but if it were different, the Gong would go down, and either UTS (11 wins) Mac Uni (10 wins) or Manly (9 wins) could all figure on the last day in Div 1 with the hope of going up to Premier. Obviously Sydney Uni in 3rd could win it, but have a team in Premier already.

Div 1- Top 4 of old SFA clubs, surprise! Bottom three of Gong (2 wins) UNSW/ES (2 wins but game in hand) and Wests (3 wins) all a chance to finish with splinters.

Div 2- Well it was about this time last year that everyone was certain they'd go up, but finals footy got to the Southern Power. Playing them a few weeks ago at Bensons, and seeing their capitulation vs UTS in last years prelim, one thing sticks out- if umpires calls go against them, they lose the plot. They can be beaten, we got within 11 points and lost by 30, Parra lost by 10 or 20 at Gwawley, so anything can happen, but they are a well drilled team. So Top 4 looks like Power, UTS, Parra, with Nor-West and Sydney Uni on equal points but % difference. Bottom three, looks like last years Premiers UNSW/ES could be headed back down with only one win, or Manly with 2 wins.

Div 3- Moorebank would be favourites, with their bogey team East Coast too far behind the top 4 so not there to worry them. Riff in 2nd could snatch it, as could UTS, Power 4th. Penno looks liely to drop down with only one win.

Div 4- Can't see anyone getting close to Auburn. They would probably prefer to drop a game before finals (hopefully against us!) but they have dominated all year. I reckon they and Saints should be given a chance in Div 3, although the Saints aren't as dominant as I thought they would be. But still doing well to stay in the 4.

Anyway, that's an hour or so burnt on my behalf. What chance of any new clubs or teams forming for 2011?

[Ken Oath]

Wollongong should come down. They have no potential to ever be competitive in the Prm div. How many years have they been there now and every year in the bottom few. Ressies also getting belted every week. They should play Div 1 & 2.
No one to come up from Div 1 unfortunately so the Gong will prob stay in Prem for another while. UTS would have first choice but Trumper Oval is definately undersized and an embarrassment to AFL. Can't see them getting the nod without a decent pitch to host the elite of the Sydney comp. And then there's the under 18's issue.

Cronulla should come up to Div 1. Enough talent and depth within to succeed.
Teams like UNSW/ES & Penno who are struggling in the lower divisions should not be relagated and should stay where they are.
Moorbank should stay in Div 3 & 4 for now, Div 2 would be out of their depth given they can't beat East Coast's 3rds.
Auburn should obviously come up, without question. And having 2 Mac Uni teams in Div 4 is a joke. Yes it's better to have another team than lose players to the code, but it's still laughable allowing a club to have 2 sides in one div. 14 is too many anyway so get rid of the Kookas and promote Auburn and you have a healthy and very competitive 12 team comp.

[tara]

Wollongong should come down. They have no potential to ever be competitive in the Prm div. How many years have they been there now and every year in the bottom few. Ressies also getting belted every week. They should play Div 1 & 2.
No one to come up from Div 1 unfortunately so the Gong will prob stay in Prem for another while. UTS would have first choice but Trumper Oval is definately undersized and an embarrassment to AFL. Can't see them getting the nod without a decent pitch to host the elite of the Sydney comp. And then there's the under 18's issue.

Cronulla should come up to Div 1. Enough talent and depth within to succeed.
Teams like UNSW/ES & Penno who are struggling in the lower divisions should not be relagated and should stay where they are.
Moorbank should stay in Div 3 & 4 for now, Div 2 would be out of their depth given they can't beat East Coast's 3rds.
Auburn should obviously come up, without question. And having 2 Mac Uni teams in Div 4 is a joke. Yes it's better to have another team than lose players to the code, but it's still laughable allowing a club to have 2 sides in one div. 14 is too many anyway so get rid of the Kookas and promote Auburn and you have a healthy and very competitive 12 team comp.

No worries Ken - perhaps ask how it was UTS belted EC on the weekend and we belted UTS the week before - Ill give you a clue though, take 12 of your best players out of any team and see how they travel.

[Pekay]

Some good points there.

Kookas were a very late inclusion this year, so rather than promote the Warriors and create a bye in the comps above, the decision was made to keep them in Div 4 for 14 teams and eliminate the bye. Fair call I reckon. However, I think that when the league knew 14 teams were playing, they should've gone for a top 5 or 6 (And yes, I still said this when we were in 13th spot) and cancelled last round to play eliminations.

UTS could quite easily play out of Henson, or Alan Davidson I reckon, was good enough for ECE to play there. And I reckon Trumper wouldn't be as bad as Ern Holmes (forgive me if I am wrong and it has been upgraded)

Agree with Gong going down again, no harm in it, gives them a chance to be competitive again. Maybe the idea to bring them up in the first place was flawed, but was seen as growth in a traditional rugby area.

Cronulla up- but they need to find a decent venue. Gwawley is a terrible ground on a good day. It's not the club'd fault, they've been trying to move for awhile now. AFL needs to work harder on the local councils in that area, some fabulous cricket grounds there that could be used. Even Waratah, although small, would suit.

If UNSW/ES and Penno's thirds can't be competitive, they should go up and down as their ladder positions dictate.

I think Moorebank would want to, and are entitled to, go up a grade if they manage to win this year. They have been competitive in the past in Div 2, why couldn't they be this time around? Hell, we couldn't beat UNSW/ES or UTS' thirds in finals last year, and we're in 4th spot in Div 2. Strange things happen in footy.

I think Auburn and Saints should be promoted, however, you'd be inclined to think that they have to demonstrate that they can field another team? (I don't think it should be compulsory, but for growth purposes it would be required) and I know Saints have plenty of numbers, but would 6 grades of senior footy within 10km (UNSW) be viable?

[Ken Oath]

No worries Ken - perhaps ask how it was UTS belted EC on the weekend and we belted UTS the week before - Ill give you a clue though, take 12 of your best players out of any team and see how they travel.

Just giving my opinion Tara. I?d hardly call your win over UTS as a belting. They were winning at half time.
I?ve no idea about what your trying to imply there. What?s your point? That you guys are better than EC?s 3rds so should go up to Div 2?
Here?s a question for you, where do you honestly think Moorebank would be sitting on the Div 2 ladder if they were there this year?
No offence but I dare say you?d be in the bottom 3 and back where you were a few years ago, getting belted every week.

Enjoy the success you have, I don?t understand the rush.

[ShortHalfHead]

No worries Ken - perhaps ask how it was UTS belted EC on the weekend and we belted UTS the week before - Ill give you a clue though, take 12 of your best players out of any team and see how they travel.

Played both East Coast and Moorebank twice this year. Can assure you that MS are head and heals above East Coast. If they think MS should stay in Div 3, then ECE should be dropped to Div 4. UTS and MS are the teams to beat in Div 3 and with UTS unable to go up, leave it between Penrith and MS to fight out promotion. But unless the league go with a new division (5), it would have to also promote Mac Uni so they are unable to have two sides in the one comp again. I really think there is a case for the two top/bottom teams for promotion/relegation, but that might raise the ire of some clubs.

18's is another story. Bit hard to promote/relegate teams on a transient player base. If clubs only could tell the truth as to where they are at in terms of numbers, sooner rather than later, it would make things a lot easier for all

[ShortHalfHead]

Pekay, Penno are moving next year and by all reports will be playing their new venue by round 3 or 4.
Power are also getting close to a move.

[Ken Oath]

Some good points there.

Not sure if Maroubra should be automatically promoted. They are 4th in Div 4 and would most likely get belted every week in a higher Div, eventually folding because players get jack of it. After all the promotion/relegation is here is make Divs competitive.

I get the Kookas thing was a last minute decision which worked out well. But in the off season should be dissolved.

I suppose UTS could play out of anywhere. With the player depth and ongoing on field success in the past decade they should be in the Prem Div, ground permitting.

Can?t agree with you about the UNSW/ES & Penno point. Yes they are struggling but when it comes to a clubs 45th ? 66th best players, one year can differ greatly to the next, more so than your first choice. They?ll be right. Plus it opens a can of worms when you relegate teams in the lower Divisions as most teams at the top of their next lowest Div already have a team in there and you end up promoting the 8th placed team. Confusing myslef even thinking about it. The divisions at the moment are accurate, only needs tweaking every year. Over the top promotion/relegation could do the opposite desired effect and return some divisions to lopsided ones.

Definitely agreed on Gwawley. Was there earlier in the year and couldn?t believe that that rectangular sand patched excuse for an AFL oval is the Shire?s no 1 pitch. Dreadful stuff. Degrades and insults all AFL players. The only thing I could think of was ?thank god we only have to play here once a year? and I felt genuinely sorry for the Cronulla players who have to play there every 2 weeks. I mean the full forwards can only lead one way, that?s straight in front in to quicksand because there?s no pockets.
At least Trumper is an attempt at an oval shape

[tara]

Just giving my opinion Tara. I?d hardly call your win over UTS as a belting. They were winning at half time.
I?ve no idea about what your trying to imply there. What?s your point? That you guys are better than EC?s 3rds so should go up to Div 2?
Here?s a question for you, where do you honestly think Moorebank would be sitting on the Div 2 ladder if they were there this year?
No offence but I dare say you?d be in the bottom 3 and back where you were a few years ago, getting belted every week.

Enjoy the success you have, I don?t understand the rush.

Mate Im not even discussing going up - our aim for this year was to make the finals and we still have six weeks left before then so thats where our focus is. Anything can happen come finals time (just ask pekay) so neither me nor anyone in the team are getting ahead of ourselves.

Your the one who said we would be out of our depth based on how we have travelled against ECE - As for UTS we struggled in the opening qtr against the breeze without our usual forward setup and on ground the size of a shoe box where they kicked the opening 6 of the game but after getting on our bike a bit we managed 17 of the next 20 goals.

NSW Uni have struggled this year but when you consider half of their side now plays div1 its hardly surprising.

As for a few years ago when we were getting belted as you say we had no players and we were a bunch of old men running around - my guys average age is now about 21 and thats allowing for for the old blokes. I certainly wouldnt expect to set the world on fire if we do go up initially but then again our focus is on our kids and I expect them to continue to develop nicely.

Finally Im not going to make grand statement about where we would or wouldnt be had we played in Div 2 this year because its all speculation and personal opinion and means nothing.

[Bert]

After watching the Sharks smash Balmain 203 - 0, dont you think that is somewhat of a mismatch?

[Ken Oath]

Mate Im not even discussing going up - our aim for this year was to make the finals and we still have six weeks left before then so thats where our focus is. Anything can happen come finals time (just ask pekay) so neither me nor anyone in the team are getting ahead of ourselves.

Your the one who said we would be out of our depth based on how we have travelled against ECE - As for UTS we struggled in the opening qtr against the breeze without our usual forward setup and on ground the size of a shoe box where they kicked the opening 6 of the game but after getting on our bike a bit we managed 17 of the next 20 goals.

NSW Uni have struggled this year but when you consider half of their side now plays div1 its hardly surprising.

As for a few years ago when we were getting belted as you say we had no players and we were a bunch of old men running around - my guys average age is now about 21 and thats allowing for for the old blokes. I certainly wouldnt expect to set the world on fire if we do go up initially but then again our focus is on our kids and I expect them to continue to develop nicely.

Finally Im not going to make grand statement about where we would or wouldnt be had we played in Div 2 this year because its all speculation and personal opinion and means nothing.

No worries big fella. All the best come September.

[Hawknik]

After watching the Sharks smash Balmain 203 - 0, dont you think that is somewhat of a mismatch?

Depends how you look at it really, both goal umpires had an even share of flag waving --- 14 and 17 at either end through the big sticks..........

[tara]

No worries big fella. All the best come September.

Hey no need to get personal.

I already cop enough from the boys at footy, my wife and my kids about being a fat f...

[Pekay]

That was a terrible mismatch, but scores like this are alot more rare than say 3 years ago. Sharks (or Power) will go up to Div 1 and be more than competitive, someone (Parra?UTS?Jets?) will take their place, Balmain will become a better team as a result. 5 years from now, wouldn't surprise to see most clubs figuring in September action at least once. That would be a great result.

[Pekay]

Mate Im not even discussing going up - our aim for this year was to make the finals and we still have six weeks left before then so thats where our focus is. Anything can happen come finals time (just ask pekay) so neither me nor anyone in the team are getting ahead of ourselves.

Your the one who said we would be out of our depth based on how we have travelled against ECE - As for UTS we struggled in the opening qtr against the breeze without our usual forward setup and on ground the size of a shoe box where they kicked the opening 6 of the game but after getting on our bike a bit we managed 17 of the next 20 goals.

NSW Uni have struggled this year but when you consider half of their side now plays div1 its hardly surprising.

As for a few years ago when we were getting belted as you say we had no players and we were a bunch of old men running around - my guys average age is now about 21 and thats allowing for for the old blokes. I certainly wouldnt expect to set the world on fire if we do go up initially but then again our focus is on our kids and I expect them to continue to develop nicely.

Finally Im not going to make grand statement about where we would or wouldnt be had we played in Div 2 this year because its all speculation and personal opinion and means nothing.

Why would you ask me big fella? I haven't played finals since 2006. Finished last in 07 and 08, (scene missing from 2009) so I call foul on that.