Balmain Players Walk Out of Match v Wests - Match Abandoned

[mountainsofpain]

They knew the possible ramifications, however the real issue here is the dubious behaviour of the board.

It is me saying that i think it is wrong to suspend pending an investigation, when the AFL has set a precedents by allowing the Essendon Football club to play among their allegations, which are far more serious than a protest at Balmain.

Isn't it up to the umpires and officials to officiate and control the game? The players made it known about the rally to the AFL pre weekend. It is easy to identify the group of players, to speak with. Why didn't they before calling the game off?

I repeat. Why didn't the players speak with the umpires and the AFL then?

Once no approach was made to them, how hard would that have been?

Just because they have a "cause", that doesn't absolve them of responsibilities of their own.

[Ancient Tiger]

I can confirm the AFL spoke to two people regarding the protest before the weekend, hence ample time to know in advance and prepare for an unusual event of this nature. Why didn't not say that they will conduct an investigation anyway, if there were going to be potentially drastic actions taken?

If I wanted to stop potential issues in my backyard, I would have been proactive and used that opportunity to grant an investigation. And evidence of unusual behavior was presented to the AFL before the weekend.

[mountainsofpain]

See, this is just starting to sound like "it's everyone else's fault" to me.

Blame the umpires, blame the AFL, we wear no responsibility ourselves.........

[Ancient Tiger]

Mountains of Pain, they are not asking to be absolved of responsibilities, they knew there was going to be potential ramifications, but the issues behind the protest are far more serious, hence the reason why this group of courageous players took the stand they did.

They did contact the AFL as I stated, provided them with evidence before the weekend. You would say from this that they did speak to the AFL, gave them some information and hoped it wouldn't come to this. If the AFL had acted on this evidence when given, then this would not have happened.

And how many players even know who the AFL official is? I was looking for the official to speak with them myself but could not find him, hence not that easy. Probably easier to find a group of players that you watched walk off to speak with, after being alerted to the fact that they were going to protest.

[mountainsofpain]

Why not go and talk to the umpires at least - I presume the players could identify them...... they could have contacted an AFL official.

Or why not identify the AFL official BEFORE the walkoff? Then the players would have known who to look for. He/she could have even been asked to stay somewhere accessible during the game.

The players have mobile phones don't they? Why couldn't one of them rung the official concerned (having come forearmed with his/her number)?

Or if that wasn't possible, they could have rung Matt Graham at least, if he wasn't the official who was there.

This just sounds like it wasn't thought out anywhere near as well as it could have been. I just find it a bit rich to be pointing the finger elsewhere for things which could have quite likely been avoided with better forethought and planning.

[Ancient Tiger]

They are wearing the responsibility, the umpires did not give the required 15 minutes as indicated above, and the players contacted the AFL with evidence pre weekend.

This is starting to sound like another "lets bash Balmain on red and white again" to me.

You complain about the issues at Balmain and then condemn the players brave enough to try to stop it. From the above points I have made previously on this forum as to why, if you can't start to see the seriousness of the breaches by this club and the desperate and unavoidable action to cause the investigation, then this comment is probably falling on deaf ears anyway.

Peoples lives have been affected by this club and it has to stop! These brave players made a stand against a board that has not acted in the interest of the game and pushed countless players and volunteers away from the sport. If you think that their stand is such an offense then I cannot wait to hear what you think about the evidence of the board once that comes out!

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They did contact an AFL official. They spoke to the AFL twice.

They presented evidence to the AFL when contacting them.

The tried an EGM.

There were dubious members that voted at an AGM.

There were negotiations in good faith that the board refused.

They fired the assistant coach in those negotiations.

They have a few weeks before the club planned their move away from Balmain and were desperate.

How many steps do you want this group to take?

Most players these days care little about their club and the sport, these guys are obviously passionate and have taken overwhelming steps for players to cause change against a group of people that have destroyed their club, their culture and their history.

Go ahead and bag them for standing up to it... you certainly carry a different system of values then I do, and applaud people that stand up to bullying in the face of receiving penalties of their own. To me that is courage.

[Tiges]

They are wearing the responsibility, the umpires did not give the required 15 minutes as indicated above, and the players contacted the AFL with evidence pre weekend.

This is starting to sound like another "lets bash Balmain on red and white again" to me.

You complain about the issues at Balmain and then condemn the players brave enough to try to stop it. From the above points I have made previously on this forum as to why, if you can't start to see the seriousness of the breaches by this club and the desperate and unavoidable action to cause the investigation, then this comment is probably falling on deaf ears anyway.

Peoples lives have been affected by this club and it has to stop! These brave players made a stand against a board that has not acted in the interest of the game and pushed countless players and volunteers away from the sport. If you think that their stand is such an offense then I cannot wait to hear what you think about the evidence of the board once that comes out!

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They did contact an AFL official. They spoke to the AFL twice.

They presented evidence to the AFL when contacting them.

The tried an EGM.

There were dubious members that voted at an AGM.

There were negotiations in good faith that the board refused.

They fired the assistant coach in those negotiations.

They have a few weeks before the club planned their move away from Balmain and were desperate.

How many steps do you want this group to take?

Most players these days care little about their club and the sport, these guys are obviously passionate and have taken overwhelming steps for players to cause change against a group of people that have destroyed their club, their culture and their history.

Go ahead and bag them for standing up to it... you certainly carry a different system of values then I do, and applaud people that stand up to bullying in the face of receiving penalties of their own. To me that is courage.

Absolute courage!!

They have had everything taken away from them and they are fighting their guts out for change. Change against those who have held regard to the sport with contempt with their actions over the years.

Let alone the countless lives that have been affected as has previously been mentioned on this forum.

[mountainsofpain]

They are wearing the responsibility, the umpires did not give the required 15 minutes as indicated above, and the players contacted the AFL with evidence pre weekend.

This is starting to sound like another "lets bash Balmain on red and white again" to me.

You complain about the issues at Balmain and then condemn the players brave enough to try to stop it. From the above points I have made previously on this forum as to why, if you can't start to see the seriousness of the breaches by this club and the desperate and unavoidable action to cause the investigation, then this comment is probably falling on deaf ears anyway.

Peoples lives have been affected by this club and it has to stop! These brave players made a stand against a board that has not acted in the interest of the game and pushed countless players and volunteers away from the sport. If you think that their stand is such an offense then I cannot wait to hear what you think about the evidence of the board once that comes out!

- - - Updated - - -

They did contact an AFL official. They spoke to the AFL twice.

They presented evidence to the AFL when contacting them.

The tried an EGM.

There were dubious members that voted at an AGM.

There were negotiations in good faith that the board refused.

They fired the assistant coach in those negotiations.

They have a few weeks before the club planned their move away from Balmain and were desperate.

How many steps do you want this group to take?

Most players these days care little about their club and the sport, these guys are obviously passionate and have taken overwhelming steps for players to cause change against a group of people that have destroyed their club, their culture and their history.

Go ahead and bag them for standing up to it... you certainly carry a different system of values then I do, and applaud people that stand up to bullying in the face of receiving penalties of their own. To me that is courage.

Don't make this personal. And the above is going off on a tangent to the points I am making.

I am simply saying if you are going to do something like this (ie a walkoff), organize it properly.

That clearly didn't happen.

There is no point whinging about the AFL not coming to see you after the walk off, or the umpires not coming to see you after the walk off. Or a forfeit being called.

That could have most likely been avoided in advance by proper planning.

You don't do something like this and leave ANYTHING to chance. You don't walk off the field of a game and HOPE that someone will come to talk to you about it.

You make sure that they DO talk to you about it. How? By taking the third party's (umpires/AFL) behaviour out of the equation altogether and initiating the talks yourselves. Immediately.

That didn't happen. From my reading of the situation, the players stopped participating in the game and assumed that someone would come to them to ask why. The contingency that that may not happen did not seem to enter their heads. Next thing - forfeit.

As I implied before, just because you have a good cause doesn't mean actions like this can't be dissected. Especially when people are coming on here complaining about the forfeit, the umpires and the AFL. I'm simply responding to those points.

[Tiges]

Looks to me mountains of pain that you are not accepting the FACT that they did contact the AFL several times pre weekend with evidence and asked them to be there.

And you comments previously about whinging and and saying it is a "bit rich" we're the comments that made it personal.

[Norris Lurker]

There's two issues here - that although linked, are separate.

One if the governance of the Balmain club. From what's been posted here and elsewhere, there's major issues there. Of course there's another side to that argument, but no-one's come on here to defend the board.
The other issue is the technical mechanics of last Sunday's match and how the rules should be applied. I don't see that MOP's comments of how that was handled should be seen as dismissive of the issues relating to the management of Balmain.

[mountainsofpain]

Looks to me mountains of pain that you are not accepting the FACT that they did contact the AFL several times pre weekend with evidence and asked them to be there.

And you comments previously about whinging and and saying it is a "bit rich" we're the comments that made it personal.

Well you were whinging aren't you? That's just a statement of fact.

I was replying to someone making assumptions about my values. Something he would have no idea about.

And how about you address the points in my previous post?

Sure you contacted the AFL in advance. And then - nothing at all appears to have been planned for game day.

Tell me - what was the contingency plan in the event that no-one came to talk to the players following the walkoff?

[Ancient Tiger]

They weren't dismissed Norris Lurker, the were not agreed with, and I tried to highlight the steps taken by the group pre protest. These points seem to be dismissed from my point of view.

And why has no one commented to defend the board? Speaks volumes to me.

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Mountains of pain, there have been so many contingency plans put in place.....AGM, EGM, negotiations, and this was a desperate and last ditch attempt when all contingencies failed.

They tried to plan as best as they could and hoped the AFL would come through on the day. As I said it was a desperate move by a desperate group.

Tiges and myself are trying to highlight this desperation, with very little time to execute before their club was lost forever. With desperate plans, sometimes there are no contingencies, and all you have to rely on hope! The group are at this point.

[Tiges]

Not whinging Mountains of Pain, just stating my point of view.

Also just received a call from a reserve grade player affiliated with the group and there was an attempt to contact the AFL on the day, however the game had already been cancelled. And it was made less than the 15 minutes allocated to give the team a chance to take the field, however the game had already been cancelled.

So they did try to contact the AFL as has just been confirmed to me.

[MrTaxman]

Dear Tiges - could you please disclose who you are? I know that you are a courageous person who loves acts of courage ... It is time to disclose your entity and no longer be a keyboard warrior and hide behind a generic alias.

[Norris Lurker]

Very interesting what a look through the rule book will show up. Under 10.7.1(b) of the Laws of Australian Football, a game is forfeited when the field umpire says it is. They don't have to wait 15 minutes.

10.7 Forfeiture of Match

10.7.1 Forfeiture
For the purposes of this Law, a Team forfeits a Match if:
(a) it is unable or it fails, refuses or neglects to commence or recommence play
(i) at the scheduled starting time; or
(ii) within such other time period determined or specified by the Controlling Body, a field Umpire or these Laws; or
(b) the field Umpire determines, in accordance with these Laws, that a Team has forfeited the Match; or
(c) an event occurs under the Laws which results in a Team forfeiting the Match.

Whether the umpire made the call too quickly, or should have waited 15 minutes, or gone down to the Balmain rooms to try to talk the players into returning, or should have played on with Wests playing the remaining 10-12 Balmain players who didn't walk for 15 minutes, is a matter of opinion.
But technically, the field umpires had every right under the Laws of Australian Football to rule that the game had been forfeited.