Balmain Players Walk Out of Match v Wests - Match Abandoned

[Tiges]

Agree 100% steamboat...attempting to save 110 years of history after all else has failed is definitely not worth the wasted afternoon of a few in protest. When you refer to wasted afternoons, then perhaps you have missed the bigger picture?

How many kids are now not playing our great sport because of the lack of development to their juniors? How many people are at numerous clubs across the league and the country bagging out Sydney footy because of their dealings at Balmain? How many players have tried for years to change this and had it thrown in their face? How many volunteers have walked away from the club or been pushed out when they try to affect change?

No one denies this club is a basket case, and there is one common denominator.

Your point of view is the players who have for years been victims are guilty, despite of the facts.

We are talking about the survival of a foundation club, and you are talking about wasted afternoons! As I said I think you have missed the bigger picture.

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Oh and how does a protest relate to how you could run a club? Just out of interest, as you have said this a few times and I would like to know what makes you think that.

[mountainsofpain]

Agree 100% steamboat...attempting to save 110 years of history after all else has failed is definitely not worth the wasted afternoon of a few in protest. When you refer to wasted afternoons, then perhaps you have missed the bigger picture?

Just out of interest - how will Sunday's stunt help achieve this goal?

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What about the 10 or so embarrassed dockers players that were left on the ground after the walk off, we're they not informed of action to be taken,or did they think it was too drastic and one not to be supported.They were obviously keen to represent the club as best they could on the foot ball field.

I wasn't aware it was only some of the players who were responsible for this.

The bolded is a very good question. It would be interesting to know the answer.

[Tiges]

Because now there is now an AFL investigation that cannot be swept under the carpet, that is how it will help. If you look at the above comments from Ancient tiger, the club will not be at Balmain next year or be called Balmain, it will be the Sydney Dockers playing out of Coogee!

There is less than a month left in the season and tkje protest affected no teams finals chance. I would say the players exercised all possible avenues and had only 3 weeks to get attention before another farcical AGM would take place later in the year. It is a desperate and crucial time for these guys, and this club.

Also the 10 players who protested did not ask the others to be involved for selfless reasons and that cannot be discussed here on this forum.

There are questions to be answered absolutely, but Ancient Tiger has obviously been trying to explain the situation the best he can without contravening forum or legal rules, but the message should be pretty much loud and clear if you read between the lines.

These answers I am sure will come out post investigation and I am even more sure you will all be in support after the findings.

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So a question to you all.

If you thought that your club was about to fold and there was nothing else that could be done, but to protest, as all other routes had been take, would you stage a protest to save your club?

Quite a conundrum as if you answered yes then you understand, if you answered no, then you are not a true clubman.

[mountainsofpain]

Where is the guarantee that the "AFL investigation" will produce the desired outcome though?

What if the AFL decides it will support the existing administration and punish the players involved for instance?

What then?

And even if the AFL were on side, it can only do so much. It can refuse the club renaming itself and moving, sure, but it can't remove the administration - only the members can do that.

And as it appears that nothing short of the current administration being removed will make the disaffected group happy, then I don't see how this protest actually helps things.

I guess the AFL could suspend the entire club, but I don't see what that would achieve.

I just hope that those responsible know what they are doing and have a detailed strategy in place, because if they don't, this protest - as a stand alone action - may not achieve much at all.

[Tiges]

There are no guarantees anything will happen from this, the only thing you can guarantee is that next year there will be a Sydney Dockers playing out of coogee with a fist full of cash, and the extinction of a foundation club, with those reponsible for its demise running the new club. This action was not a rush of blood, it was a genuine last attempt to save a once great club.

If the AFL decide to go against the players then the cycle at that club will continue closer to the beach... Pretty sad really, and if so my boys, and daughter, will be lost to AFL as I won't have them play a sport that facilitates such a disgraceful culture.

Desperate times, desperate measures! No guarantees, but one thing is for sure, there is a brave group of players who are copping a lot of crap, which they knew they would, to affect change for the overall benefit of their club... Not too many bigger sacrifices to make for the sake of their club. My definition of a heroic act.

Feel free to disagree, but I will back these guys till the day I die!

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So any takers on my question? Would you stage a desperate protest to save your club when all other avenues had failed?

I don't want to hear that this could be done, or that can be done. Just a simple answer to a simple question!

[MrTaxman]

Tiges/Ancient Tiger - Can I get a bit more of an understanding of the legal entity/structure of the club ... where does Balmain Australian Football Club Inc (ABN 22 105 673 549) and Balmain Dockers Australian Football Club (ABN 96 213 716 876) sit in relation to the Drummoyne Sports Club Ltd (ABN 51 396 678 799)? Am I getting it right that it is the DSC AGM & its board which you are disputing? Or is it BAFC? Or BDAFC? Are there other sporting clubs affiliated with DSC also affected? As I understand it the property is/was owned by DSC ... assuming a $1M profit was made, how are funds ultimately distributed to the football club (if at all)? Does BAFC get the whole $1M? Ancient Tiger previously alluded to not one club could be too big to dominate.

Whilst everyone may be obvious to you, it is hard to read between the lines for those outside the club. I wouldn't be surprised to see sanctions against those into bringing the club/league into disrepute - even demotion to a lower grade (regardless of management structure). Alternative actions? Mediation with the league ... litigation/police (if actions were illegal or fraudulent) ... wait til the end of year AGM (have a legal representative there, as well as an AFL offical & take a video recording of the meeting) ... establishing a new football club at the end of the season if everyone else was behind you & have it registered with the league.

What exactly is the help that you want from the other clubs or AFL Sydney? Is it a bailout? Is it de-registration of the existing club? Is it a personal guarantee of player payments? Is it the power to overthrow the DSC board & install their own handpicked? I can't help but think you picked the wrong time of year ... not to mention the wrong format ... to be doing these stunts. AFL Sydney has limited resources particularly at this time of year.

If an EGM is called tomorrow for 14 days' time, do you have all your ducks in order? What happens if your faction still can't gain control?

Can you name the current members of the board? Surely that won't be in contravention of any laws or forum rules?

PS Why is the owner of the Balmain Dockers Australian Football Club business name the ones listed on ABN Lookup - Advanced search

PPS Where do people become members of the club so they can vote & be a fly on the wall at the AGM/EGM?

[Coastal Boy]

The actions of the weekend will ensure all Balmain members at least question the actions of the current board and should provide a healthy AGM.
Without all of the facts, I can only support the action of the players. It must have been tough for any group of footballers to stage a walk off. The criticism which they knew would follow must have had them doubt their actions.
I'm sure Wests will get over this quickly and the positive outcome of their actions, if it eventuates, will justify it.
I doubt Kippa, who I can only guess has his finger prints all over this, has only the best interests of the club at heart.

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MOP, in response to your post, our society provides courts of law and mediation but the avenue for a protest is still our democratic right. Sometimes it is the only way to get things to happen. I can only guess the powers that be at the Sydney AFL are not ignoring the situation now(assuming they were before).

[MrTaxman]

Would you stage a desperate protest to save your club when all other avenues had failed?

Without knowing everything, I honestly don't believe that all other avenues were actually exhausted ... but if they had, then I would have picked better timing than the time that you did & in a different manner to what you did.

[Tiges]

Taxman, just to be clear I had no part or involvement in what happened but completely back the reasons why.

So when would have been a better time? Before finals had been decided between the two teams, or before negotiations had broken down after the board failed to recognise the EGM? After the season when no one cares? And what more could have been done by this group! I am just wondering as you asked the question.

But to my question, is it a yes or no? Would you stage a protest when all other avenues had been exhausted?

[Ancient Tiger]

So any takers on my question? Would you stage a desperate protest to save your club when all other avenues had failed?

I don't want to hear that this could be done, or that can be done. Just a simple answer to a simple question!

YES!

Any others out there care to answer?

[MrTaxman]

Taxman, just to be clear I had no part or involvement in what happened but completely back the reasons why.

So when would have been a better time? Before finals had been decided between the two teams, or before negotiations had broken down after the board failed to recognise the EGM? After the season when no one cares? And what more could have been done by this group! I am just wondering as you asked the question.

But to my question, is it a yes or no? Would you stage a protest when all other avenues had been exhausted?

I wrote a lengthy reply with some other avenues & timings but it is with the moderator for review - not sure why - so you will have to wait til it gets approved to see those alternatives. The timing? You should have either actioned immediately after the AGM last year ... or wait to this year's AGM in 2 months' time. But with 3 weeks to go in the season? Seriously - just suck it up boys & sort it out as men in your own backyard ... as Neville Wran once famously said "Balmain Boys don't cry!"

YES ... By all means you have the right to protest - but NO ... as protests take many forms as well - did the players really need to walk off to protest? Could they have protested another way? if money was an issue could the players have formed a fundraising sub-committee & gone out to sign up sponsors? Could they have established a "Save the Tigers" Fund? Could they have held benefit nights & invited the AFL Sydney Community to help out? Could they have sold memberships? Could the Life Members living in "funky Balmain" sold each of their respective houses & put the money into the club as a loan to help it out whilst cashflow was an issue? Could you have issued debentures as a form of short-term financing? Give me 13 months like ye have had & I reckon that I would come up with ten more avenues that you haven't explored - and that is just one person.

If you have no resolution this week, will you walk off again? You have put yourselves into a tight corner for what still seems to me to be an internal issue where one group has outplayed the other group in the boardroom. Was Ancient Tiger involved in the writing of the constitution which made it so complex to remove committee members?

Without knowing the AFL Sydney By-Laws intimately, my understanding is that the walk-off will result in an additional debt to the club - in the form of an automatic fine from the league. Continuing walk-offs would lead to further league sanctions including demotion/deregistration ... could you think of alternative measures to protest now? How many meetings did you have before coming up with the decision to walk-off?

So what exactly is the number one issue ... based on my maths the club will have $1.5M after the sale proceeds ... not quite the $4.5M hoped for but far in excess of any other AFL club in Sydney ... is the issue that once the club receives the proceeds & hopefully pays all outstanding debts to players/coaches/league that they intend on relocating to Coogee & renaming the club to Sydney Dockers .. is that the real issue with the current management here? From what I can understand the paid players on your list this year actually live closer to Coogee than Drummoyne in any instance. Is the issue that you are not playing at Drummoyne but rather Henson? My understanding - through Sydney Cricket Club - is that with all the government dollars thrown at the upgrades that it was virtually impossible to train on the ground (and even play when two drops of rain fell) & the hiring fees for the facilities were ridiculous.

Finally two grand finals appearances over the previous two seasons indicates that they must have done something right.

[Norris Lurker]

I wrote a lengthy reply with some other avenues & timings but it is with the moderator for review - not sure why - so you will have to wait til it gets approved to see those alternatives.

Don't know what happened there - some permutation of words must have triggered an auto-moderation filter. I have no objection to that post and it is now approved.

[Tiges]

Thank you taxman, so your answer is YES!

The fact that you have ignored all the information provided by Ancient Tiger with regards to the "complex" nature of the club and sporting club in terms of how to remove the board, but note the complexities of identifying which entity is the "actual" football club has me baffled, but thank you for your YES response.

You ask for 13 months to give you ideas, these players had 3 weeks. You have an open forum to come up with ideas, without any of the pressure this group is under and the best thing you can say is would have 10 ideas.

Your comments about contracted players living closer to coogee shows your ignorance in the fact that it was uncontracted players that took a stand! But the fact that you know where they live has me asking all kinds of questions about your involvement in the club??

But thank you for the YES with regards to protesting.

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Come to think of it taxman, you are either involved in the administration, close friends with the administration, or a stalker! (Joking)

If it is the first question, when can we expect a response from the club, if it is the second question, then which administrator has been discussing personal player information (ie part of the problem), or of it is third, then turn yourself into Maroubra Police station immediately! (Again joking)

[Mug Punter]

Don't suppose there is any chance of Mr Harley, the NSWAFL Golden Boy of showing any leadership on this matter....

[unconfuseme]

I think the AFL and Young Tom have enough to worry about at the moment ... again, an issue with no impact on the the development of GWS? ... no interest ...


BTW "2 grand final appearances over 2 seasons" is pretty meaningless when you do it on the back of interstate mercenaries, and at the same time your magoos and u/18's are forfeiting games ... and the current predicament proves they were NOT doing much right.