Match Thread. Grand Final!!! Swans v Lions.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

We are all feeling devastated by the loss, but I don't think we should be completely surprised. We won 17 games this season, a fair chunk of those wins featured the Swans putting on a 20 minute burst of exquisite football that simply blew our opponents away. But in a lot of those games the other 60 minutes weren't exactly scintillating were they?

And in a couple of games, that burst just never came, we got beaten badly by the Dogs, then lost the game against Port by 112 points. So it's not as if yesterday was without precedent this season.

By far the most telling stat of the day and one that I think might be without precendent this season, was

The fact we got out tackled comfortably in a game we lost by 10 goals in a very, very damning..

[dejavoodoo44]

That is the point of following footy; that it is inconsequential in the larger scheme of things. We can direct our energy, both positive and negative, in ways we usually cannot in other social frameworks.

It's hard to comprehend how pathetic our pressure was when everyone knew it was the key to the game. Brisbane played like a team you would expect to play in a grand final. How can the Swans put ups suck little fight.

We were a high pressure team in the early part of the season, then slowly slipped away. We found that we could win games on scoring ability alone, while allowing the opposition to have the ball for a majority of the game. After going 13-1, we should remember that we finished the regular season 3-6. So we entered the finals in fairly poor form.

The players and coaches all said that our preparation was great, but clearly it was not. There seems to be some mental aspect of the game that we left behind and can't find our way back from. It's not understood internally, or one would think it would have been rectified.

I've been a Longmire fan for most of the journey, but am now thinking that it might be time for a change. To bring a team into the GH so ill-prepared to put up a fight, shows a serious deficiency somewhere beyond the players.

It wasn't that we lost that disappoints so much, but rather the way we lost. And it's hard to see how that gets gixed. It's not just a matter of shuffling around players.

PS: Sorry I don't post very often these days, but my vision is quite poor/ which has limited my ability to read and write.

Good to hear from you again.

Yes, it's hard to know exactly what went wrong. Although, I tend to think that since the players were adamant that the preparation was fine, then perhaps it was a decent preparation? And even though at times they were playing like they weren't that motivated, I'm sure that they did run out feeling hugely motivated. I mean, 100,000 screaming fans and a chance to fulfil your childhood dreams, makes me think everyone was on board with the idea of applying maximum effort.

So I guess that makes it harder to ascertain, why Brisbane did the basics so much better for so much of the game. Things like creating space with the ball in hand and applying pressure when the opposition has it. It's possible that the thrashing of two years ago left us with mental scars, whereas, a close defeat last year, just left Brisbane feeling like they only had to improve a small amount to be premiers. They certainly looked to be in the zone and generally just doing what they were supposed to. While from early in the second quarter, we gave the impression that we were thinking, "Oh @@@@, it's happening again!"

And that lack of confidence can set off a bit of a vicious circle. As in, less confidence means less running off the ball, which means that the person with the ball has less options, therefore they're more likely to choose a poor option or get caught with the ball. Which then further erodes the confidence...

It could also be the case, that some of our players are very good when the opposition pressure drops off, but don't really respond well when the pressure is intense? As in, they look almost unbeatable during the regular season, but haven't quite got it in them to win big finals. But that might just be a snarky way of saying that teams tend to play worse, when there opponents are playing really well. And certainly, the nucleus of this team has played very well in qualifying and prelim finals.

The balance of the side might also be a bit off. That is, over the past decade or so, the recruitment emphasis has been more on speedy and skilful outside players, rather than hard at it inside types. Which means that we can often play exhilarating attacking football, but can struggle to win contested possessions or reverse the momentum when the opposition mids are on top. In the grand final side, you could only really class Rowbottom and Parker as midfield bulls: and Parker doesn't spend that much time in there. Though it's possible that a fit and firing Mills and Sheldrick could have made a difference if they were in the side.

I'm more or less in agreement on Longmire. On one hand, he does seem to be held in high regard by players, management and pretty well everyone involved at the club. And I also think that if we actually won yesterday, then I would have been happy for him to keep his job for as long as he wanted and eventually retire as a Swans legend. Plus I also think that much of the criticism of him, has largely been petulant dummy spitting, by people who are almost certainly clueless in regards to coaching and management. But on the other hand, perhaps there is some mysterious fatal flaw in his coaching, that tends to sabotage our performance in grand finals? Or perhaps it's now time for some sort of new approach (not that I really know what the current approach is)? Or maybe the best chance of the playing group achieving the necessary mental reset, is for the coach to be a sacrificial lamb? Though of course, I'd hope that management would make sure that if they do act, they do so knowing that there's a reasonable chance that the new coach would actually be an improvement.

[The Big Cat]

It is laughable in the extreme to believe any club would even consider replacing a coach of a team that won 19 games including two finals.

[Agent 86]

The last 2 weeks our kicking has been precise, this week it was rubbish. I thought Errol was ok but boy some off his kicking was woeful. Too many dinky kicks to players covered. Did anyone spot Jmac in the crowd or at the bar because surely he wasn't on the ground. If Heeney played the finals with a stress fracture in his ankle in the previous finals, then why did he play, when Mills was deemed unfit? I suspect it only took one turn by Logan to do his ankle again.…

Isaac apparently played both prior finals with said injury, hey? He was BOG in both, so you'd play him with a broken leg at this point.

Too much relies on too few amongst this lot, so things clearly gotta change.

I blame the GFC. Not the Financial Crisis, but the Grand Final Choke. From Horse down. Too slow to make any meaningful changes. Lions had a good spread of contributors across the MCG whereas we had at least half a dozen who seemed to be watching from a pub on Punt Road. Did we have anyone who could be said to have beaten their direct opponent on the day?

[mcs]

That is the point of following footy; that it is inconsequential in the larger scheme of things. We can direct our energy, both positive and negative, in ways we usually cannot in other social frameworks.

It's hard to comprehend how pathetic our pressure was when everyone knew it was the key to the game. Brisbane played like a team you would expect to play in a grand final. How can the Swans put ups suck little fight.

We were a high pressure team in the early part of the season, then slowly slipped away. We found that we could win games on scoring ability alone, while allowing the opposition to have the ball for a majority of the game. After going 13-1, we should remember that we finished the regular season 3-6. So we entered the finals in fairly poor form.

The players and coaches all said that our preparation was great, but clearly it was not. There seems to be some mental aspect of the game that we left behind and can't find our way back from. It's not understood internally, or one would think it would have been rectified.

I've been a Longmire fan for most of the journey, but am now thinking that it might be time for a change. To bring a team into the GH so ill-prepared to put up a fight, shows a serious deficiency somewhere beyond the players.

It wasn't that we lost that disappoints so much, but rather the way we lost. And it's hard to see how that gets gixed. It's not just a matter of shuffling around players.

PS: Sorry I don't post very often these days, but my vision is quite poor/ which has limited my ability to read and write.

Wonderful to hear from you Ludwig. Hope you are doing alright - we miss your wonderful regular additions to RWO, but glad to hear you are keeping on keeping on!

And as always, what you say makes a hell of a lot of sense.

[mcs]

I’m clueless why the intensity and pressure was so lowball for
this one, however I’m sure they will work it out.

This worries me however. I would have said the same thing after 2022, but what exactly did we see them do differently yesterday? In fact, at half we were actually in a worse position than the 2022 Grand Final.... think about that for a minute. And imagine had Brisbane kicked straight.

I have absolutely nothing but respect for Longmire, the wonderful person he is, and the terrific overall record he has as coach. But he has now overseen 3 absolute disaster grand final appearances with strikingly similar characteristics. I'm sorry to say I have a lot of faith that we know how to identify, let alone rectify, how we are going into grand finals in such a poor mental state (these issues are surely primarily in the mind).

I think the only way to hope for change in that regard is genuine change in the club. Maybe we are just missing the right 1 or 2 staff as part of the group - but I must admit I doubt we will overcome this now without major changes and a new direction.

[Agent 86]

It is laughable in the extreme to believe any club would even consider replacing a coach of a team that won 19 games including two finals.

I tend to agree. Yes we've choked at the final hurdle. 4 times. But i doubt there'd be too many other clubs be complaining about about making the GF 5 times in 12 years. We need a bit of perspective.

The coaching panel's job is to get 'em to the last week, select a team who's capable of winning, & hopefully being able to adapt quickly on the day to the state of the game. They've failed in the last part, but overall, they've been successful for many seasons.

On the last day, the fate of the outcome sits with the players. Who's having an outright crack and who's already planning their off-season break?

[Ludwig]

I don't think there is a coach in the league that talks more about the importance of pressure around the ball than Longmire does. He brings it up at just about every news conference. All the players repeat the mantra. It's no secret in the playing group.

Players like Rowbottom and Fox, where pressure is central to their role, just carried on as usual and had decent games. The others spoke about it, but at some deeper level must have believed they could beat the press and win with slick ball movement, like they did last week against Port.

It's not surprising that the Lions were able to beat us. They played the way most thought they would. Their game style is not much different from ours. What troubles me about Longmire is that he should know why we couldn't execute his game plan, even though everyone thought we were well prepared. Longmire was also clueless about our 112 point dismantling by Port last month.

The coaching group has to take responsibility for their failure to get the message across to the players, and why the players believed they were prepared for this game, when clearly they were not. Except for 2016, we were beaten in our grand final losses by a better team. But we have to question why our performances in those 3 games was so shocking.

[crackedactor 01]

I believe what Nick Daicos posted on social media is on the money. Not surprised by the performance as they are a "bunch of immature tossers". I think that tag will stay with them for a long time. We need to grow up.

[KSAS]

If Nick Daicos did indeed post that comment, his club would be most disappointed to say the least after the Ginnivan post fiasco.

Agree with the above posts that essentially we don't throw out the baby with the bath water when it comes to John Longmire & reviewing our recent disastrous GF performances.

To me, it is psychological between the ears on the day & will require enormous inner strengths to overcome the deep scarring Saturday's loss may present. Our list is still in the premiership window. Just hope we're not prematurely cooked. Time will tell.

[UUaswan]

It is laughable in the extreme to believe any club would even consider replacing a coach of a team that won 19 games including two finals.

He should step aside to another role.
We know He isn't leaving but needs to handover for the good of the club.

It probably only a year earlier than planned but the time is right, let someone else lead and take a different role

[dejavoodoo44]

If Nick Daicos did indeed post that comment, his club would be most disappointed to say the least after the Ginnivan post fiasco.

Agree with the above posts that essentially we don't throw out the baby with the bath water when it comes to John Longmire & reviewing our recent disastrous GF performances.

To me, it is psychological between the ears on the day & will require enormous inner strengths to overcome the deep scarring Saturday's loss may present. Our list is still in the premiership window. Just hope we're not prematurely cooked. Time will tell.

I did a couple of quick searches, last night and just then, and I strongly doubt that Daicos actually posted that. There's no news stories about it and the only social media account that he appears to have is a private instagram account. So it's likely that he just posts the odd picture for friends, rather than whipping up controversy on X.

[Go Swannies]

After a long drive yesterday I'm back at the computer. Where do I start? On a positive, it's great to have RWO running reliably so I can get away from the Facebook lynch mobs. Thanks. My wife (who stayed in Sydney) asked how I was feeling during the game and I replied that I was reading obituaries of Maggie Smith as that was cheerier than lifting my head to watch the game. When it finally came to its catastrophic conclusion I replied that I was gutted and vindictive and wouldn't be disappointed if I heard Horse announce his retirement on Sunday.

On the bright side, I elected not to go to the 2024 Grand Final dinner - I attended in 2005 and 2012 and they were magical nights (even 2006 was okay after an honorable one point loss) but after 2014 I couldn't face that level of mass depression again. Then again, after walking 10 km "home" from the MCG in a red hot rage after 2016 I said I'd never attend another Grand Final but I was there for 2022 and 2024. This one really hurt as I thought two years of added maturity reversed the "too soon" problems of 2022 and I really expected us to win. Obviously the issues remain and significant changes need to be made throughout the club to remedy that. In 2005 Paul Roos pre-game message to the team was simple: "if you play your best football, you'll win" - and they did. That message, indeed the Bloods culture, has been lost and needs to be found again. That may need changes in the coaching panel and/or the players but it needs to be substantial.

I'm going to the Club Champion dinner this Friday. I don't want jokes from Adam Spencer and platitudes from our management. I want to be told what the way forward is going to be. Because doing the same thing over and over for the same devastating results will break the club - and may have already broken some players.

A final observation. After 2022 I fled the MCG after Dane's speech (he does give very good runners up speeches, if that's a positive) but on Saturday I stayed. I wanted to watch the Swans players' reaction to the loss. I was surprised that that many seemed deeply disappointed but not devastatingly heartbroken. I was a bit shocked. Maybe they had had the last quarter to accept the inevitable loss or maybe there was something more. Incidentally, I mentioned this later to my Melbourne host, a casual Tigers fan, who had a seat near the boundary and he replied "it's interesting you say that as I thought the same thing, they almost seemed accepting of their failure". As both of us are team leaders in our outdoor industry - and used to judging the spirit of the team in good and bad times - I'm merely reporting our judgement and have yet to determine what it means?

[Blood Fever]

I believe what Nick Daicos posted on social media is on the money. Not surprised by the performance as they are a "bunch of immature tossers". I think that tag will stay with them for a long time. We need to grow up.

Where did he post this? Your source?

[UUaswan]

After a long drive yesterday I'm back at the computer. Where do I start? On a positive, it's great to have RWO running reliably so I can get away from the Facebook lynch mobs. Thanks. My wife (who stayed in Sydney) asked how I was feeling during the game and I replied that I was reading obituaries of Maggie Smith as that was cheerier than lifting my head to watch the game. When it finally came to its catastrophic conclusion I replied that I was gutted and vindictive and wouldn't be disappointed if I heard Horse announce his retirement on Sunday.

On the bright side, I elected not to go to the 2024 Grand Final dinner - I attended in 2005 and 2012 and they were magical nights (even 2006 was okay after an honorable one point loss) but after 2014 I couldn't face that level of mass depression again. Then again, after walking 10 km "home" from the MCG in a red hot rage after 2016 I said I'd never attend another Grand Final but I was there for 2022 and 2024. This one really hurt as I thought two years of added maturity reversed the "too soon" problems of 2022 and I really expected us to win. Obviously the issues remain and significant changes need to be made throughout the club to remedy that. In 2005 Paul Roos pre-game message to the team was simple: "if you play your best football, you'll win" - and they did. That message, indeed the Bloods culture, has been lost and needs to be found again. That may need changes in the coaching panel and/or the players but it needs to be substantial.

I'm going to the Club Champion dinner this Friday. I don't want jokes from Adam Spencer and platitudes from our management. I want to be told what the way forward is going to be. Because doing the same thing over and over for the same devastating results will break the club - and may have already broken some players.

A final observation. After 2022 I fled the MCG after Dane's speech (he does give very good runners up speeches, if that's a positive) but on Saturday I stayed. I wanted to watch the Swans players' reaction to the loss. I was surprised that that many seemed deeply disappointed but not devastatingly heartbroken. I was a bit shocked. Maybe they had had the last quarter to accept the inevitable loss or maybe there was something more. Incidentally, I mentioned this later to my Melbourne host, a casual Tigers fan, who had a seat near the boundary and he replied "it's interesting you say that as I thought the same thing, they almost seemed accepting of their failure". As both of us are team leaders in our outdoor industry - and used to judging the spirit of the team in good and bad times - I'm merely reporting our judgement and have yet to determine what it means?

They were gutted but the feeling at the end was like most supporters, it's happened again and we have had a half of footy to let it sink in.

No climax of feelings from a siren or a parade when the result is known an hour prior.

Not blaming Horse but for the benefit of the club its time to step aside, he is the brand and after very bad GFs he is also the story.


Imagine we finished 2 games clear on top next year, the story going into the GF, wven as heavily backed favourites, would be Can Horse get his team up for the big day.
The point being, nothing he does next year will change the narrative.