Roos takes credit for Goodes' Brownlow

[VideoMan]

This is a beauty this one.

I am continually asked why I hate Roos and I continually explain that I don't. There is nothing here that suggests that I do.

And then you come out with this beauty in the next sentence

Roos is continually excused because he won the flag (which is exactly the point I am making - he has everyone convinced that he did). He @@@@@@ it last year - the players were down and he was outcoached most of the day - but that was fate.

BAck to this

I am continually asked why I hate Roos and I continually explain that I don't. There is nothing here that suggests that I do.

If so, why do you find any opportunity to attack Roos? Not to mention the plethora of threads you have started in the past year bagging Roos and his egotistical ways. And its been since Man Child was dropped last year. Oh poo woo a confessed loner was dropped.

Now lets move on to your next bit, you confuse yourself with this..

Teams run on teamwork and an important part of the team are the individuals that make it up. They all get treated differently because they bring different things to the club - some are even better players than others.

You sure are a funny guy ROK and full of contradictions. I bet you have constant fights with yourself on a daily basis! I hope you are on medication as your a flippant bi-polar sufferer!

So are you going to make up your mind, do you hate him or not? Do you have Paul Roos picture on your dart board?

And no I am not a moron, so play the ball not the man!

[ROK Lobster]

This is a beauty this one.

And no I am not a moron, so play the ball not the man!

Umm, where does it say that I hate Roos. He @@@@@@ it on GF day, so did Hall. Jude was woeful too. It happens.

There is nothing contradictory in what I have said. I think that you may confuse complicated with contradictory. The team is made up of individuals, some who are more important than others. That's why RWO went into melt down when there was a rumour that Hall was injured, or why the record number of viewers for this site was when Hall was at the tribunal in GF week 2005. It's why players get paid different amounts, it's why plyers get cut from lists, why others get picked up at trade week. To say that Goodes won the Brownlow because he stuck to the game plan borders on the ridiculous. To say that he did not is not to say that I hate Roos, or to say that I think that Terry Wallace is a better coach, or to say that I would rather follow the Eagles. That you fail, continually, to comprehend that very simple concept suggests to me that you either have an agenda (again) and/or that you are a moron. My guess is on the and.

[ROK Lobster]

Some questions, and materials for Vidiegoman.

Same old same old from Roos and his media side-kick Hinds. While Hinds is one of he better AFL writers in the Sydney press (when writing about other clubs) he is very lazy when it comes to the Swans. He sits at the feet of Paul (or likes to give the impression he does - he probably has the press release, containing quotes emailed to his desk (or did Roos say all those thing in the latest Swans magazine?)) and regurgitates without analysis or criticism.

The best thing about it was some public recognition that Fosdike was BOG in the 2005 Grand Final.

Oh, and the nod to RWO - or did he come up with the Dancing with the Stars quip by himslef? Maybe Crouchy goes round to Paul's place to watch it when the boys go out on the town?

Where is the hate?

Recognition that Goodes, Hall, O'Keefe et al are champions, and that they would be champions (or at least could be champions) outside of the "team plan". There is never any recognition from Roos that anything is achieved outside of his influence. Yeah, they are champs because they do as he instructs but we have all seen how crap the game plan is when the players are not up to speed, when skill levels are down. Remember the Adelaide game last year? But then it was the players fault. The game plan - the team plan - relies more on champions for its efficacy than the players rely on the game plan for their champion status.

I don't want Roos to @@@@ in their pockets but I would love to hear him say something along the lines of "Goodes is a champion player. He thoroughly deserves any accolade that befalls him. He has earnt it and is a credit to himself and the club". Something like that. Something that lets him out of the Roos context for 5 minutes, not to heighten his status as an individual away from the team but simply to recognise that he is a champion. Seems that players will only be treated differently when they do something wrong?

Is it somewhere there?

Goodes has won two Brownlows, playing two very different roles. He would never have played in the ruck if we had a decent ruck division the year he won his first one. The second one was won running through the midfield - absolute genius. Roos also tried him at CHB for half a season with no success at all (but that would have been because of his knees, not because he is a crap CHB). Roos has got more from Goodes than Eade did. Eade got more from Schauble than Roos did. Roos has had a mature and more developed body and mind to play with. That Roos has got plenty from Goodes is a fact, and whether or not anyone would have got anymore is debateable. What is a fact is that Roos never speaks of the success of the club except in the context of having no superstars and in the context of the game plan (and the football department) that he has constructed.

Has anyone responded to any of the arguments I have put forward?

It really is a bit silly when what I have said above is construed as hating Roos, loving Terry the Tan, wanting Goodes to have a drug habit, wanting a team of "FIGJAMS", being an eagles supporter, and something about Buckley. But then, it is easier to say all those things than actually engage in a conversation. Definitely an "and".

[Brandon]

Umm, where does it say that I hate Roos. He @@@@@@ it on GF day, so did Hall. Jude was woeful too. It happens.

There is nothing contradictory in what I have said. I think that you may confuse complicated with contradictory. The team is made up of individuals, some who are more important than others. That's why RWO went into melt down when there was a rumour that Hall was injured, or why the record number of viewers for this site was when Hall was at the tribunal in GF week 2005. It's why players get paid different amounts, it's why plyers get cut from lists, why others get picked up at trade week. To say that Goodes won the Brownlow because he stuck to the game plan borders on the ridiculous. To say that he did not is not to say that I hate Roos, or to say that I think that Terry Wallace is a better coach, or to say that I would rather follow the Eagles. That you fail, continually, to comprehend that very simple concept suggests to me that you either have an agenda (again) and/or that you are a moron. My guess is on the and.

Just to make it even more confusing, what Roos said is not that Goodes won the Brownlow (or that any other player won the award) because they stuck to the game plan, but that sticking to the game/team plan allowed them to win the Brownlow/whatever award.

i.e. the implication that even if you stick to the game/team plan you might not win an individual award, but if you don't stick to the plan you won't win one. Probably to emphasize the collective achievement aspect again - as good as Goodes is, someone has to kick the ball to him before he can use it, and he has to have someone to kick to after he gets it. As good as Bolton is defensive pressure from the midfield is important to give him a chance to spoil and show his wares. As a sport AFL probably has the most players on the field at the one time - there are a million and one ways teammates can influence what happens elsewhere on the field.

[Brandon]

Some questions, and materials for Vidiegoman.


Goodes has won two Brownlows, playing two very different roles. He would never have played in the ruck if we had a decent ruck division the year he won his first one. The second one was won running through the midfield - absolute genius. Roos also tried him at CHB for half a season with no success at all (but that would have been because of his knees, not because he is a crap CHB). Roos has got more from Goodes than Eade did. Eade got more from Schauble than Roos did. Roos has had a mature and more developed body and mind to play with. That Roos has got plenty from Goodes is a fact, and whether or not anyone would have got anymore is debateable. What is a fact is that Roos never speaks of the success of the club except in the context of having no superstars and in the context of the game plan (and the football department) that he has constructed

1) Goodes rucked in the second half of 2002, didn't he? He did well in that role, which was why he continued to ruck in 2003. Rucking was causing a heavy toll on his body and we lacked forward options, so he was trialled as a forward early in 2004. His form was poor so he was swung back to the ruck, where he promptly injured his knee so he was switched back to help cover the Schauble-less defence. The midfield experimented started when he rucked around the ground in early-mid 2005 when Jolly and Ball were both out, and he looked so much better Roos played him as a winger to great effect.

Or, at least that's how I remember it.

2) Schauble had a very good season in 2003 under Roos, switching to FB after Dunkley retired. Injuries did him in unfortunately - Whitnall, you might recall, beat him in Schauble's last appearance in red and white.

Goodes was on a massive down-curve when Eade left. That is a fact too.

3) The last bit is where you continually seem to misinterpret Roos, and it is an important point because it is the sticking point: Roos has never said that it is a plan he has constructed. Rather, it is a plan they - the players, the coaches, and the football departments - have constructed. You seem to think that Roos dodges a lot of the responsibility, but at the same time Roos dodges a lot of the credit, because the system covers him too. When he speaks of the gameplan, he is not talking about just himself, but the whole team.

[liz]

3) The last bit is where you continually seem to misinterpret Roos, and it is an important point because it is the sticking point: Roos has never said that it is a plan he has constructed. Rather, it is a plan they - the players, the coaches, and the football departments - have constructed. You seem to think that Roos dodges a lot of the responsibility, but at the same time Roos dodges a lot of the credit, because the system covers him too. When he speaks of the gameplan, he is not talking about just himself, but the whole team.

Well said.

[Alibi Monday]

3) The last bit is where you continually seem to misinterpret Roos, and it is an important point because it is the sticking point: Roos has never said that it is a plan he has constructed. Rather, it is a plan they - the players, the coaches, and the football departments - have constructed. You seem to think that Roos dodges a lot of the responsibility, but at the same time Roos dodges a lot of the credit, because the system covers him too. When he speaks of the gameplan, he is not talking about just himself, but the whole team.

Indeed. Spot on.

[originalswan]

3) The last bit is where you continually seem to misinterpret Roos, and it is an important point because it is the sticking point: Roos has never said that it is a plan he has constructed. Rather, it is a plan they - the players, the coaches, and the football departments - have constructed. You seem to think that Roos dodges a lot of the responsibility, but at the same time Roos dodges a lot of the credit, because the system covers him too. When he speaks of the gameplan, he is not talking about just himself, but the whole team.

Exactly!

Since when has Roos ever taken credit as the sole contributor to our (successful) game plan - He always stipulates (especially for those with some sort of agenda against the man) that it is team work and sticking to the principle that the team is greater than the individual, that has brought the Swans success. Perhaps we read things according to our preconceived ideas, but my interpretation of the Roos philosophy is TEAM first and individual last - and there entails our success under his guidance.

[Margie]

3) The last bit is where you continually seem to misinterpret Roos, and it is an important point because it is the sticking point: Roos has never said that it is a plan he has constructed. Rather, it is a plan they - the players, the coaches, and the football departments - have constructed. You seem to think that Roos dodges a lot of the responsibility, but at the same time Roos dodges a lot of the credit, because the system covers him too. When he speaks of the gameplan, he is not talking about just himself, but the whole team.

Very well said, Brandon.

[Sanecow]

OK, now that you're all in agreement that the current plan isn't a plan Roos has constructed I hope none of you will ever mention the genius of "Roos' three year plan" or that he was "the coach that won us the Premiership" again? Good, thanks.

[dimelb]

OK, now that you're all in agreement that the current plan isn't a plan Roos has constructed I hope none of you will ever mention the genius of "Roos' three year plan" or that he was "the coach that won us the Premiership" again? Good, thanks.

It's hard to believe it would have happened under Rocket - or Plough for that matter. And who was the genius that decided to play Goodes in the midfield?
I've read what you say, Cow and ROK, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. There's no way I see Roos as a megalomaniac; I think you have a bee in your respective bonnets.

[cruiser]

I think you have a bee in your respective bonnets.

For all the newbies to RWO, you'll have to try to get use to these frequent, attention seeking and usually unsubstantial rants about Roos by the Lobster.

[NMWBloods]

And who was the genius that decided to play Goodes in the midfield?

Good fortune!

[Bart]

Roos has got more from Goodes than Eade did. Eade got more from Schauble than Roos did. Roos has had a mature and more developed body and mind to play with.

Your bow gets longer by the day.

[ROK Lobster]

Your bow gets longer by the day.

I was making a point. Does anyone seriously believe that Goodes would have been incapable of winning a Brownlow if Eade had have replaced Roos. Seriously, it is a wonder we are ever beaten.