If you want to talk about Ben Cousins, post it here (mega merged thread)

[ernie koala]

Um baiting?? Read the rules please.

When Tony Lockett was first mooted as a possible recruit in late 1994, but was likely to go to Collingwood, there wasn't a person at all that I knew (and believe me there were not many fans at that stage even though Barrassi had taken over, so the ones I knew were actual fans) that wanted him at our club.

Pulling you up for hippocracy is not baiting.
I've supported the swans since 1976 when my family moved to MiddlePark. And every swans supporter I knew, both in Sydney and Melbourne, were keen as mustard for the swans to sign him. So if your going to make statements regarding history, you should look beyond your own narrow band.

[Damien]

Pulling you up for hippocracy is not baiting.
I've supported the swans since 1976 when my family moved to MiddlePark. And every swans supporter I knew, both in Sydney and Melbourne, were keen as mustard for the swans to sign him. So if your going to make statements regarding history, you should look beyond your own narrow band.

How is me saying "I didn't know a Swans fan at the end of 1994 that wanted Plugger" when I didn't, an incorrect statement?

It is baiting when you are using another thread to try and prove a point that wasn't working very well in another thread.

[ScottH]

Pulling you up for hippocracy is not baiting.
I've supported the swans since 1976 when my family moved to MiddlePark. And every swans supporter I knew, both in Sydney and Melbourne, were keen as mustard for the swans to sign him. So if your going to make statements regarding history, you should look beyond your own narrow band.

I think most swans fans back then hated him, and didn't want a bar of him, but when it came down to it. It was preferred we got him than the dreaded pies.

[top40]

I remember a long long time ago, we traded in a young man named Tony.
EVERYONE hated him.
There was the Peter Caven incident.
There was even the pig on the ground episode before he came up the demonstrated the contempt everyone had for him.
Most people however hated him for two reasons.
1) He was a thug.
2) He was a huge player in the 12 goal last quarter comeback to down the Swans at the SCG (I think)

But as soon as he was touted as a trade, I forgot everything and saw the positives in having him play for us.
Most people however, still hated him wearing a Swans guernsey until he begun winning games for us.

Same with Dermie.
Great pickup for the Swans, even though he only played 8 games or so.
He was great for the team and is still a great proponent of the Swans.

If we can draft Benny for next to nothing I'd be happy with that.
Regardless of what he's on, he would be our best midfielder.
If we could help him with his issues, and settle him down a bit (trademark of the Swans) then why not?
Like I said - worth the risk.

All the haters soon become fans.

To draw a comparison with Tony Lockett and Ben Cousins is drawing a very very long bow.

The evidence is that Cousins was on a five day cocaine bender! That was after all the publicity dating back to March 2006 when he ran away from a police car. That?s nearly two years of extensive bad publicity: a number of court appearances; being sacked as the Eagles captain; a break up with his long time partner; the December 2006 incident outside the Crown in Melbourne; being suspended; going to America mid season for so called rehabilitation; witnessing the drug related death of a past teammate; and finally, being sacked from the West Coast Eagles. Yet after all that, there is no evidence that Cousins has kicked an illicit drug habit. Indeed, far the opposite.

As a club, the Swans don't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt to be more than satisfied that Ben Cousins is far too big a risk. If he has a serious drug issue, (which seems fairly convincing), suddenly walking down George Street unrecognised is not going to represent appropriate rehabilitation. Further, noting the coverage in the last few weeks of the Sydney Press, I very much doubt that Cousins would even enjoy anything close to a camouflaged lifestyle by living in the Harbour City as is suggested. His infamy would definite follow him across the Narabour.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

He's the hiphopapotamus, his lyrics are bottomless.

[CureTheSane]

To draw a comparison with Tony Lockett and Ben Cousins is drawing a very very long bow.

The evidence is that Cousins was on a five day cocaine bender! That was after all the publicity dating back to March 2006 when he ran away from a police car. That?s nearly two years of extensive bad publicity: a number of court appearances; being sacked as the Eagles captain; a break up with his long time partner; the December 2006 incident outside the Crown in Melbourne; being suspended; going to America mid season for so called rehabilitation; witnessing the drug related death of a past teammate; and finally, being sacked from the West Coast Eagles. Yet after all that, there is no evidence that Cousins has kicked an illicit drug habit. Indeed, far the opposite.

As a club, the Swans don't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt to be more than satisfied that Ben Cousins is far too big a risk. If he has a serious drug issue, (which seems fairly convincing), suddenly walking down George Street unrecognised is not going to represent appropriate rehabilitation. Further, noting the coverage in the last few weeks of the Sydney Press, I very much doubt that Cousins would even enjoy anything close to a camouflaged lifestyle by living in the Harbour City as is suggested. His infamy would definite follow him across the Narabour.

I was drawing a comparison between them purely based on the hatred that Swans supporters generally seem to have for Cousins and did have for Plugger back in the day.

Reminding everyone that their minds actually can change.

Also that I really don't GAF about any off field stuff.
If he comes to the Swans, id expect him to perform on the field,and I believe he would quite satisfactorily.

[CureTheSane]

Well that's funny , because I knew plenty
Yeah, you don't rewrite history, do you .

I think Damien has a stalker

[Mr_Juicy]

How is me saying "I didn't know a Swans fan at the end of 1994 that wanted Plugger" when I didn't, an incorrect statement?

It is baiting when you are using another thread to try and prove a point that wasn't working very well in another thread.

Take it to a PM. My time is precious

[top40]

I was drawing a comparison between them purely based on the hatred that Swans supporters generally seem to have for Cousins and did have for Plugger back in the day.

Reminding everyone that their minds actually can change.

Also that I really don't GAF about any off field stuff.
If he comes to the Swans, id expect him to perform on the field,and I believe he would quite satisfactorily.

The issue of whether the player is hated or loved by Swans supporters is irrevelant.

In this case, Cousins' off field life style is not just a moral issue. It is represents a very practical issue. Consider this scenario very carefully. Cousins was seen for years as the so called "spiritual" leader of the West Coast Eagles player group. This image of leadership continued even after he was sacked as the Eagles? captain in March last year. Nevertheless, whilst this Cousins leadership image within the club continued, there was clearly a very serious drug culture, as witnessed by not just Cousins, but at least Gardiner, Kerr, Fletcher, and Chick, (and almost certainly several more players). That drug cultural extended to even past great players such as the tragic Mainwaring.

As both a serial drug user and the spiritual leader of the players' group, Ben Cousins must surely be deemed as the ring leader and key responsible figure in the drug cultural of the West Coast Eagles. Because of that culture, I firmly believe that the club not only lost an on field superstar in Cousins himself, but for completely opposite reasons, it lost a second superstar in Chris Judd. I strongly suspect that clean, Victorian Judd suddenly left Perth a few weeks ago to get away from this insidious drug culture of the club.

So there you have it. Almost certainly because of Ben Cousins and his lifestyle, the Eagles have lost two of the game's truly great midfields. With Cousins himself, (without the drugs), and Judd, there was the potential for the Eagles to win a string of Premierships a la the Brisbane Lions (2001-2003). Instead, the 2006 win will be in this era their sole flag, when they may well have won in the same era at least 3 and even 4 premierships.

No I'm sorry. Yes, Ben Cousins was on field a superstar, capable as we witnessed in July against the Swans of taking over 40 possessions. But his life style and more importantly, the state of his health, off field, has been shown to be a cancer on the West Coast Eagles football club. Most probably, that cancer will be hard to remove in the years to come.




But CureTheSane, from a purely practical point of view, even setting aside any moral issues, it's a cancer that has fatally impacted upon the club ON FIELD.

[CureTheSane]

You make a lot of assumptions and draw a lot of conclusions.
You seem to have wrapped it all neatly up and locked it away.

everything you said may well be true.
But chances are many of your assumptions are wrong.
Perhaps Daniel Chick is the drug lord at WC
Maybe Cousins just got sucked in.

My ONLY point is that the Swans should not refuse Cousins without thoroughly reserching his predicament.

Everyone has an opinion about Cousins and drugs, and that he is a lost cause.
Maybe he is, but maybe he'lll come good.
I'd take that risk.

[swantastic]

You make a lot of assumptions and draw a lot of conclusions.
You seem to have wrapped it all neatly up and locked it away.

everything you said may well be true.
But chances are many of your assumptions are wrong.
Perhaps Daniel Chick is the drug lord at WC
Maybe Cousins just got sucked in.

My ONLY point is that the Swans should not refuse Cousins without thoroughly reserching his predicament.

Everyone has an opinion about Cousins and drugs, and that he is a lost cause.
Maybe he is, but maybe he'lll come good.
I'd take that risk.

Thats what an i-net forum is all about CTS.

[TheGrimReaper]

In more very important news, Australia has just won the 1st test at the Gabba by an Innings an 40 Runs. Stuat Clark got the last wicket.

[swantastic]

In more very important news, Australia has just won the 1st test at the Gabba by an Innings an 40 Runs. Stuat Clark got the last wicket.

Can a mod please move this off topic post to the thread "1st Test Aus v Sri Lanka"

[CureTheSane]

Thats what an i-net forum is all about CTS.

No it's not.

It's about presenting a point of view in a discussion.
It's not at all about collating information from pieces of various news storied, drawing conclusions and then presenting your conclusions as being factual.

This is why there are deleted posts when players are named as being drug cheats etc.
Many people here make comments based on the facts as they interpret them.

Anyone here is welcome to present an incisive post as to the details of Cousins' battle with drugs.
Anyone with the knowledge of his feelings towards his problem should let us all know.
Unfortunately, the only ones with these details are those close to Cousins, and I doubt they post here

[swantastic]

No it's not.

It's about presenting a point of view in a discussion.
It's not at all about collating information from pieces of various news storied, drawing conclusions and then presenting your conclusions as being factual.

This is why there are deleted posts when players are named as being drug cheats etc.
Many people here make comments based on the facts as they interpret them.

Anyone here is welcome to present an incisive post as to the details of Cousins' battle with drugs.
Anyone with the knowledge of his feelings towards his problem should let us all know.
Unfortunately, the only ones with these details are those close to Cousins, and I doubt they post here

Ok then well my point of view is he is a dickhead and should never play AFL again,and i do have knowledge of people on drugs.Thats how i form my opinion.