The AFL?s $100m Gold Coast proposal

[cruiser]

As North has now decided to remain south the AFL should immediately move to Melbourne all of North's games that had been scheduled to be played on the Gold Coast in 2008. North has tried to con the people of Sydney, the people of Canberra and now the people of the Gold Coast with its pretentions about relocating. I say let them play and wither and die now in Melbourne. Good riddance when they do - they will only have themselves to blame. DEATH TO NORTH MELBOURNE for being such idiots!!

For 2008 the AFL should now reschedule two away Brisbane Lions games and an away Sydney game to the Gold Coast as these teams would appear to have the largets support up there.

[cruiser]

The Gold Coast want their own side and yet don't have the supporter base to support one. Those who do support AFL already support an AFL team and are therefore unlikely to jump ship to another AFL team that is moved up from Melbourne. They might jump for a 17th Team created for nothing but not a current team. The idea that there is a ready made market is flawed.

So said the cynics about the Swans while debating their proposed move to Sydney. They now look as foolish as you might some time in the future.

Yeah I'm sure they see the same bright future on the Gold Coast that the VFL saw in 1986 when they handed the Licence to the Brisbane Bears over to a man called Christopher Skase. We all know how football went on the Gold Coast from there......

Yeah, three premierships as the Brisbane Lions in four grand finals. What's your point?

[cruiser]

North Melbourne is such a dead spot for recruiting members. The suburb has stuff all residential family breeding ground. Gone are the days for North Melbourne where someone was born and then grew to follow the club simply because they lived in the area. Now it's commission housing, semi industrial area.

They're so inbred now they are no longer capable of successful reproduction.

[robbieando]

As North has now decided to remain south the AFL should immediately move to Melbourne all of North's games that had been scheduled to be played on the Gold Coast in 2008.

Sure the AFL can do that (and I'm sure they are thinking of doing it too) but North would be laughing all the way to the bank because the AFL would be in breach of contract. North deciding to stay in Melbourne doesn't mean they have breached their contract with the AFL to play 10 games over 3 years on the Gold Coast, the AFL would have by not honoring the contract and removing them from game already set down for the Gold Coast. So North might of played a trump card here....

North has tried to con the people of Sydney, the people of Canberra and now the people of the Gold Coast with its pretentions about relocating.

Hang on a second, when has North once said that they EVER were going to relocate ANYWHERE?? Sure they have been trying to set up secondary markets and done shocking jobs at it in Sydney and Canberra because of their lack of knowledge, interest and hatchet jobs.

But they have tried harder with the Gold Coast but have been forced into making a decision by the AFL, they don't won't to make on 30 days notice and as a result it is as clear as day to the Gold Coast people that they rather be in Melbourne than up on the Gold Coast, but which Melbourne club wouldn't???

I say let them play and wither and die now in Melbourne. Good riddance when they do - they will only have themselves to blame. DEATH TO NORTH MELBOURNE for being such idiots!!

I say give them a chance to have one last go, if it works then good on them, if not then they have dug their grave. But the AFL hasn't helped their cause by holding a gun to their head and saying "move now or your on your own". No club should be put in that position.

For 2008 the AFL should now reschedule two away Brisbane Lions games and an away Sydney game to the Gold Coast as these teams would appear to have the largets support up there.

and just which 4 clubs are going to be willing to give up home games to play on the Gold Coast??? Melbourne and the Bulldogs already play enough home games interstate for their liking and the Hawks have 4 in Tassie. Then you have St Kilda and Collingwood who would only play up there as the away team and not the "Home" team. I would think Carlton, Richmond and Essendon would be in the same boat. Geelong wouldn't be interested and well North aren't welcomed anymore. Port, the Crows, Eagles and Freo play would lose too much income playing on the Gold Coast and the travel enough as it is. That leaves Sydney, who will never have a home game shifted interstate and Brisbane who are in the area already and would be pointless to move a GABBA game down the road.

So who replaces the Roos if the AFL kicks them out of the Gold Coast from next year???? No one, unless they are willing to give up Home Games and we all now that is next to impossible to happen on short notice and without large cash incentives.

[robbieando]

So said the cynics about the Swans while debating their proposed move to Sydney. They now look as foolish as you might some time in the future.

The cynics were wrong on one point in regards to the Swans relocation, because the VFL said that a Sydney team could only work if it was a relocated team. So the cynics were wrong on that point. I doubt a start up Sydney side would of been as successful long term without the playing list and football staff going up there.

What the VFL got wrong and the cynics were right to dismiss were that the people of Sydney would be accepting of such a team right off the bat. A VFL report said crowd averages would 20,000 per year from year one and that the team would be profitable with 3 years because of the amount of corporate support in the town that would some for the team. Pity they didn't get all that right. Because we didn't start getting regular season crowd averages of over 20,000 until the mid to late 90's (86/87 aside) and we never turned a profit until the mid 90's.

It took the best part of 15 years in the biggest city in Australia without another AFL team within 1 hour of us for us to a) become successful b) turn a profit and c) get crowd averages of 20,000 plus.

Yeah, three premierships as the Brisbane Lions in four grand finals. What's your point?

How many of those premiership were won by the Brisbane Lions ON THE GOLD COAST??? My point, how successful on and off the field were the Brisbane Bears when they played on the GOLD COAST and what happened to the team when they moved to Brisbane???

The answers - Not successful at all on the Gold Coast and losing money hand over fist and once they moved to Brisbane things turned around and success in the way of the 3 Premiership came.

[Industrial Fan]

But we don't rely on membership sales (or ticket sales for that matter) alone to survive, we look to other areas, such as sponsors, the corporate market and merchandice to grow our bottomline and therefore become less relient on needing our members to sign up each year at the same level (sure there is a brake-even point, but it isn't 30000). This is what North will try and do now they have decided to stay. Grow their sponsorship income, grow their corporate market (which has always been one of their strong points) and in place of merchandice sales increases, they try and balance it with reasonable cost-cutting (which the Swans did in 2003) and trying to workout a fairer deal with Telstra Dome for ground rental.

I love this myth that the Gold Coast is "ready" for an AFL team. Was it in 1987, was it in 1992 when the team they had left and in the 15 years since what has changed??? So what if they moved and kept some of their fans? As was shown by the Swans, it takes time for the ill-will to die down and for the Melbourne based fans to enbrace the move. We only have 8000 members in Melbourne 26 seasons AFTER we moved, I doubt the Roos would get close to that in year one. Plus as per my prior point what hope do the Roos have of getting members on the Gold Coast when the Brisbane Lion bearly get 20,000 members in Brisbane.

The market ISN'T ready and yet the AFL will have you believe it is, despite it say only 12 months ago they were looking at having a team in place there in 2015, not 2010 which became their position only a month ago. The AFL is making up the facts to suit themselves.

Its very relevant when you move a debt riddled club to a place that has a team less than an hours drive already stuggling to get 20000 members in the area and has been the sporting black hole for anything that has gone in there.

So we have close to a third of our members in Melbourne. Big deal. You make the point yourself that membership is not everything. We are also the only afl team in Sydney, and although we have a "low" membership, we also have a huge latent supporter base, giving the corporate sell a lot of momentum. Kangaroos are in Melbourne, and afl town that is oversaturated and have little claim to corporate dollars as they dont have the supporter base. I'm not sure how the corporate side has been one of their strong points? Was it a few seasons ago they didnt have a sponsor, and they tried playing in the orange guernseys....that spells desperate to me.

Again, Brisbane dont have a huge membership, but they are quite well off. If the roos are just getting handouts to continue in Melbourne, with a very minimal scope for growth, from a business point of view, they may as well pay that money to grow a new market.

No one is claiming that the G.C. is a panacea, however the move would be backed by the afl who are now more desperate to push in their considering the moves of the other codes. There is an inevitability about a move, and I think they have two choices - cease to exist, or move to the G.C. Their members may be up in arms, which is sad, but that is the situation.

[goswannie14]

Well it was stated that North membership tally was poor at 26000, yet Sydney have less members in Sydney with no other AFL club to compete with and are a profitable business. So if North's membership is so poor and unworkable, what does that makes ours???

North with 26000 members, you have to be joking. They would be lucky to have 20000 members.

[robbieando]

So we have close to a third of our members in Melbourne. Big deal. You make the point yourself that membership is not everything. We are also the only afl team in Sydney, and although we have a "low" membership, we also have a huge latent supporter base, giving the corporate sell a lot of momentum.

Correct. While we don't have a large membership base in Sydney to sell to corporate people we do have the fact we are the only AFL team in Sydney point to sell to raise a fair chunk of cash for sponsorship. Our jumper sponsorships alone, are on par with ANY in the AFL because of where we are based and not because of our membership numbers nor our on field form.

Kangaroos are in Melbourne, and afl town that is oversaturated and have little claim to corporate dollars as they dont have the supporter base.

OK, that point might be valid, because Melbourne does have alot of AFL sides BUT that doesn't mean North is a) the team with the smallest supporter base and b) the team with the lowest corporate appeal. Those points are subjective and at the moment are out of whack because the AFL are focusing on North for a move rather than the Bulldogs or Demons, who are selling games interstate as well, have debts and have small supporter bases.

I'm not sure how the corporate side has been one of their strong points? Was it a few seasons ago they didnt have a sponsor, and they tried playing in the orange guernseys....that spells desperate to me.

For the Orange jumpers it was a one off promotion for the phone carrier in 2001 - Orange - and the just replaced the Blue on their away jumper with Orange. But then again Carlton tried it in 97 for M&M's with that Light Blue jumper and they have a far larger debt than North, you suggesting they move??? Of you aren't because Carlton have strong corporate backers who the AFL can trust to get them out of their mess (and have most likely already have).

As for not having a sponsor, well your wrong on that point because it was the Bulldogs who went in the 2002 season without a major sponsor and ended up having Gameday Sponsors who they used as jumper sponsors. They also nearly went in the 1999 season without a sponsor before Vodafone became their sponsor for 3 seasons a fortnight from the start of the season. So North have not had the trouble finding a major sponsor like the Bulldogs, but your not suggesting moving them to Darwin are you???

Again, Brisbane dont have a huge membership, but they are quite well off.

Not as well off as you might think. Consider that an hour away from where the AFL want North to move to, the Lions don't have more than 20,000 local members and stuggle to post profits and thats AFTER being in the city for 15 years and having won 3 Premiership in a won. Now just think what sort of "growth" North might have on the Gold Coast when there is NO Stadium deal in place and none likely, any corporate dollars have to be fought over with the Lions and ditto the fans who have already shown that they aren't there in the numbers needed to survive without even more AFL handouts.

If the roos are just getting handouts to continue in Melbourne, with a very minimal scope for growth, from a business point of view, they may as well pay that money to grow a new market.

See this is where you miss the point, the North plan is to make the viable so they DON'T need handouts from the AFL to stay in Melbourne. That's one of the reasons why they wanted to stay. Why go from handouts in one city to handouts in another and handover the keys at the sametime??? That's their whole point.

No one is claiming that the G.C. is a panacea, however the move would be backed by the afl who are now more desperate to push in their considering the moves of the other codes.

That's why I wouldn't move, the AFL is desperate and their $100 million package, really only totals up to $45 million. There is no Stadium deal with the Queensland Government and the North Shareholders would have to handover ownership of the licence of the club to the AFL and therefore once on the Coast the Club itself would be controlled by the AFL and the fans would have no say and the shareholders and current board likewise.

Pretty much what happened to us. Plus all the Picks and concessions were dependent on the other clubs agreeing to them and Collingwood weren't in favour of some parts of the package. So why should the members and shareholders of a club be forced to make a decision on their clubs future when the promises made to them weren't even 100% certain to go though.

I would of rejected it as well and asked the AFL to come back with a package that a) had a Stadium deal and b) had the full support of the 15 other AFL clubs. I would only enter into relocation on the understanding that what was promised would be delived and the AFL couldn't do that.

There is an inevitability about a move, and I think they have two choices - cease to exist, or move to the G.C. Their members may be up in arms, which is sad, but that is the situation.

They have decided to make a go at Melbourne one last time and if it doesn't work then if suppose they cease to exist. But I guess they didn't want to give up the keys to the club and certainly didn't want to be like the Swans in Sydney (well like we were for the first 15 season at least) when we first moved up here.

Its a brave move and one that might not work out. But its not a decision as simple as choosing the AFL package and moving because the AFL package was not any good and no other club would of accepted it either. Instead of trying to hold a gun to their head the AFL should of tried to work with the Roos and only gone ahead when a Stadium deal with the Queensland Government was worked out. But despite that, they jumped ahead 5 years in their plan, went ahead without a Stadium deal and the North people saw the that package was basically worthless without one.

[The Undertaker]

If you "really" love your footy team, you become a member - it's what keeps your footy team alive.

Norf fans should learn to put their money where their mouths are.

Bums on seats, etc.

Works wonders with the bottom line of the club.

That is very true,

Every cent counts!

If Roo supporters are serious about their footy club then they must put their money where their mouths are and really get behind their team/club.

Otherwise they can shut up if North decide to go roaming around the country in search of a home.

IMO,North Melbourne were stupid not to take the Gold Coast offer.

[AnnieH]

If you "really" love your footy team, you become a member - it's what keeps your footy team alive.

Norf fans should learn to put their money where their mouths are.

Bums on seats, etc.

Works wonders with the bottom line of the club.

That is very true,

Every cent counts!

If Roo supporters are serious about their footy club then they must put their money where their mouths are and really get behind their team/club.

Otherwise they can shut up if North decide to go roaming around the country in search of a home.

IMO,North Melbourne were stupid not to take the Gold Coast offer.

I went to a barbie on Saturday night and there just happened to be four norf fans there (... lucky me, I got to talk footy!!). None were members.

One lives in Sydney and is a member of the swannies (just loves his footy and wants to see a game).
The other three were from Melbourne. One signed up when they put the call out. The other two couldn't justify it. They can front up to any game played in Melbourne and pretty much get a decent seat.

There's norf's problem.