In defence of Barry Hall

[ScottH]

gee he was skinny back then.

Now we know why he doesn't like physical contact in a contact sport.

[connolly]

The issue with the send off rule is having clear criteria of when to use it.

Everyone can look at the Hall incident and confidently say that if there was such a rule he would - and should - have been sent off.

But would you have sent Trent West off? Only for him then to have been found at the tribunal not to have a case to answer.

There used to be a rule that if an umpire reported someone during a game, there was an automatic 50m penalty. But even that was abandoned when it was realised how arbitrary it is that umpires actually choose to report on the spot, and very often they report matters that aren't even close to reportable.

I think they have - or used to have - a send off rule in the WAFL? Does anyone know what the guidelines are there for using it, or how many times it is actually invoked?

The send off rule should not be introduced for the following good reason. It creates a cop, jury and judge all in one flawed person - the ump (particularly a McLaren or Chamberlain). At the moment we have a system of seperation of powers where the umpires report and the Tribunal adjudicates. The send off would be a blight on the game we don't need. Umpires should not be given the power to determine guilt and penalty.

[AussieAnge]

Stenglein IIRC.

Thanks NMW I knew it began with St...

[BSA5]

The send off rule should not be introduced for the following good reason. It creates a cop, jury and judge all in one flawed person - the ump (particularly a McLaren or Chamberlain). At the moment we have a system of seperation of powers where the umpires report and the Tribunal adjudicates. The send off would be a blight on the game we don't need. Umpires should not be given the power to determine guilt and penalty.

A nice-sounding theory, but irrelevant. It being in the hands of an umpire is only a problem if the issue is ambiguous and vague (like pretty much all AFL gameplay rules). If you make only punching or a "sending-off" offence, well, that's pretty straightforward. You hit somebody with a closed fist in the face, you go off. Umpires aren't stupid; they deal with stupid rules. They'll be able to adjudicate something like this satisfactorily. We're not (or at least, I'm not) talking about a rule that results in usually at least one person being sent off every game; I mean two-three send-offs a year. Just a weapon that umpires have which can prevent things like what Hall did from happening.

[Go Swannies]

There was at least one other punch in the face this weekend that got a one week suspension - so less than a trip might. So how would that work? Or you'd think a punch in the nuts would be automatic sin bin - but then let off at the tribunal. If the team lost could it reclaim the points for the player unjustly sent off?

[bodgie]

Yep, I think the umpires need a reserve power n these cut and dried situations. Clearly Roos should have pulled Hall but he didn't. Market forces don't always work. You can't have someone getting thumped early in a game, especially in the opening minutes, so that they're taken out of the game. Especially in a final. You could thump, say, Goodes and put him out of the game in the opening moments of a Grand Final and suffer no effective penalty in a history making game. A situation like this may need a quick reference to video replay for insurance (The only reason I'd advocate it). A melee is different when anyone involved is probably alert to that they're in a violent situation.

[goswannie14]

They used to have a send off rule in the VFA. It was scrapped after Phil cleary was wrongly sent off (and reported), resulted in Coburg losing a final. cleary was found to have no case to answer at the tribunal, it was then scrapped before the next season.

There was at least one other punch in the face this weekend that got a one week suspension - so less than a trip might. So how would that work? Or you'd think a punch in the nuts would be automatic sin bin - but then let off at the tribunal. If the team lost could it reclaim the points for the player unjustly sent off?

The above example was IIRC a PF, so they missed out on the opportunity to play in the GF. It is stupid idea and should not be even considered.

[Eala ?ireann]

Red Cards

Not a fan. They cause a hell of a lot of controversy in Gaelic Football. Fellas get sent off in dodgy decisions.

Also, it often punishes the fans. I've been to games where one team ends up down three men, the other team full strength. Or one other time where both teams lost five men (in a 15-a-side game with no rotating bench), so you ended up with ten blokes trying to cover an enormous footy park. absolutely crap footy when you've traveled a long way and parted with a decent lump of your hard earned. Not an entertaining spectacle.

Mind you, I'd love to see the stats on teams who have gone on to win with a man short, or even two men short, as it's many times I've seen that happen.

A sin bin set-up might be workable.

Mind you, If Baz had been sent off (or taken off Roosey!), he would not now be nursing a busted hand.