Adam Goodes and the best player in the AFL debate

[Kanga]

You are so freakin dreaming it's not funny sonny!!

You can't put Carey in the same basket as Hird, Voss or Buckley ... on-field OR off-field.

How does he match up against your Goodesy?

From WIKIPEDIA......
In 1988, North Melbourne club CEO Greg Miller met with the Sydney's football department to discuss the transfer to North Melbourne Football Club of John Longmire, already an established key position player. Once discussions had concluded, Miller enquired about Carey. He made an offer of $10,000 as transfer fee, to which the Swans agreed

In 2008 Wayne Carey was named as Australian Football's greatest ever player as part of a list of the top 50 players of all time, published in the book 'The Australian Game of Football', which was released by the AFL to celebrate 150 years of Australian Football.

[AnnieH]

I did say regardless of his off field antics - the bloke was awesome on field. Even a Goodes loving character like yourself may have to admit that he could play the game.

He could kick goals (and can now belt his girlfriend with a glass) - impressive.

Still though, not in the same league as Voss, Buckley, Hird et al.

Unfortunately, in this day and age, your off-field indescretions are sometimes powerful enough to undo all the good work you did on-field.

[Mr Magoo]

If you are going to do comparisons of Franklin, Carey etc then our own Plugger must be included.

If the name of the game is to score more goals than you opponents and you have forwards for that purpose then Plugger is a country mile ahead of Franklin. He could kick goals so reliably I remember it being almost comforting to see him take a mark in the forward fifty. You just knew that most of the time and on a week in, week out basis he would more than likely kick a goal.

I would rather have plugger than franklin in my forward line any day of the week. To be honest although I dislike the arrogant bastards persona , I would rather have Carey as well.

In regards Goodes , I have said this in a previous thread but I believe history will view him as a champion player.

[Industrial Fan]

Ablett Snr still ranks pretty well...

[Kanga]

He could kick goals (and can now belt his girlfriend with a glass) - impressive.

Still though, not in the same league as Voss, Buckley, Hird et al.

Unfortunately, in this day and age, your off-field indescretions are sometimes powerful enough to undo all the good work you did on-field.

I don't know how many times i have to repeat myself. Onfield Annie, onfield.

I do love the irony of picking him up from Sydney for $10k. Maybe that was a better deal than Grant for Schwass!!

[AnnieH]

How does he match up against your Goodesy?

From WIKIPEDIA......
In 1988, North Melbourne club CEO Greg Miller met with the Sydney's football department to discuss the transfer to North Melbourne Football Club of John Longmire, already an established key position player. Once discussions had concluded, Miller enquired about Carey. He made an offer of $10,000 as transfer fee, to which the Swans agreed

In 2008 Wayne Carey was named as Australian Football's greatest ever player as part of a list of the top 50 players of all time, published in the book 'The Australian Game of Football', which was released by the AFL to celebrate 150 years of Australian Football.

The author was a Norfs supporter.

How many brownlows has Carey won again??????

I forgot.

[Kanga]

If you are going to do comparisons of Franklin, Carey etc then our own Plugger must be included.

If the name of the game is to score more goals than you opponents and you have forwards for that purpose then Plugger is a country mile ahead of Franklin. He could kick goals so reliably I remember it being almost comforting to see him take a mark in the forward fifty. You just knew that most of the time and on a week in, week out basis he would more than likely kick a goal.

I would rather have plugger than franklin in my forward line any day of the week. To be honest although I dislike the arrogant bastards persona , I would rather have Carey as well.

In regards Goodes , I have said this in a previous thread but I believe history will view him as a champion player.

Good suggestion - Plugger was bloody awesome, both at the Moorabbin and Sydney. Was a gutsy defender who dared get in the way of Plugger on the lead.

[Kanga]

The author was a Norfs supporter.

How many brownlows has Carey won again??????

I forgot.

I forgot Brownlows.... is that the best measure of a champion is it? Not everyone on this thread seems to agree Annie! Woewodin was one example. Liberatore another.

Carey got North two premierships....once against the red and the white.

Are you saying Sydney didnt get the $10k for Carey or that it is pure folklore?

[Swanner]

And Mike Sheahen left him out of the 150 bets of all time

I still think i must have made a mistake and misread the list but Mike Sheahen put Chris Grant in before Adam Goodes in his 150 best AFL players of all time...what a tool!!!

[AnnieH]

I forgot Brownlows.... is that the best measure of a champion is it? Not everyone on this thread seems to agree Annie! Woewodin was one example. Liberatore another.

Carey got North two premierships....once against the red and the white.

Are you saying Sydney didnt get the $10k for Carey or that it is pure folklore?

In wikepedia, the reference you made to the $10k for Carey has a little note attached to it called "citation needed", so yes, I'd say it is an urban myth.

The "citation needed" link you just followed was placed there because a Wikipedia editor feels that the preceding statement is likely to be challenged, and therefore needs an inline citation. If you can provide a source to back up the statement, please be bold and add it. If not, please exercise extra caution when using the flagged information. If the statement violates Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons, delete it immediately.

[swantastic]

You are so freakin dreaming it's not funny sonny!!

You can't put Carey in the same basket as Hird, Voss or Buckley ... on-field OR off-field.

I think you're are sort of right Annie, but if you take into account his off field behaviour then not a chance but if you only look at his on field play then he is easily in their league.

Because ... (everybody together now ...)

Carey is a wanker.

True he is a wanker and a woman basher,but was a very good football player.

[Kanga]

In wikepedia, the reference you made to the $10k for Carey has a little note attached to it called "citation needed", so yes, I'd say it is an urban myth.

So North didn't sign Carey from Sydney?

[Pace To Burn]

Its always hard when comparing players in diff positions. IMHO i think that if you talk about the best you have to look at the influence they have on a game. In terms of having the ability to single handedly lifting their team up and winning a game Hird would be almost on top. Voss, Carey,Buckley,Goodes, Judd, J Brown all are not far behind. I dont think you can include Plugger as being purely a full forward if the team didnt get the ball down to him he wouldnt have to much effect on a game. With Carey, he also won North alot of games at CHB, and yeah hes lost the plot, but #### he could play.

[Kanga]

Annie if you kept reading on Wiki you should have seen this......

In 1993, at age 21, Carey was the second youngest club captain in VFL/AFL history, and the added responsibility appeared to lift him. That year saw Carey elevate himself to perhaps the best Centre Half Forward the game has ever seen, and he remained amongst the games best for the rest of the decade. At the end of the 1993 Home and Away season, Carey became the first, and so far only, player in VFL/AFL history to average more that 20 disposals and three goals per game over an entire season. He played 18 games and had 369 disposals at 20.5 per game and kicked 64 goals at 3.6. Including North Melbourne's Elimination Final Against the West Coast Eagles, which he spent the majority of on the interchange bench due to injury, Carey played 19 games and averaged 8 marks, 20 disposals and 3.4 goals per game in 1993.

The following year Carey appeared to have improved again. After round 6 of the 1994 season, Carey was averaging 12 marks, 21 disposals and 4.8 goals per games. This included a 17 mark, 26 disposal, 7 goal performance against Hawthorn in round 3, 13 marks, 21 disposals and 6 goals against Footscray in round 4 and a 15 mark, 21 disposal, 5 goal demolition of arch rival, All Australian and Hall of Fame Centre half back Glen Jakovich and the West Coast Eagles in round 6. Carey's mid season suspensions subdued him somewhat, before he turned it on again to dominate in the finals with 10 marks, 32 disposals and 4 goals in the Qualifying Final against Hawthorn and a scintillating 14 mark, 24 disposal and 6 goal performance in the Preliminary Final against Geelong, a game North lost by a goal, kicked after the final siren by Gary Ablett. Carey's finals performances were made more impressive by the fact that he played both games with a torn calf muscle. For the season he averaged 9 marks, 19 disposals and 3.3 goals per game.

During the first two years of Carey's captaincy at North Melbourne the Kangaroos registered an impressive 25 wins from the 35 home and away games in which Carey played. In contrast, they lost all but one of the seven games in which he was absent during the same period. Such was the influence that Carey had on games in which he played, and so much did the Kangaroos struggle in his absence that, in mid 1994, the phenomenon was given a name - 'No Carey, no North'.

Carey's reputation as the games number one player continued to grow in 1995 and 1996. He became known as a master of the pack mark and the long goal. Few players in the game have ever kicked as many goals from beyond the 50 meter arc as Carey in the 1990s. He led the league in marks and contested marks both seasons and kicked a career high 82 goals in 1996, including 11 against Melbourne in Round 17 - a game in which he also tallied 15 marks, 31 disposals and 3 tackles. In round seven of 1995, he registered a career high 33 disposals against Fitzroy. North went on to win the 1996 premiership, with Carey again a stand out in the Grand Final against Sydney

In 1995, Carey averaged 7 marks, 18 disposals and 2.6 goals per game. In 1996, he averaged 8 marks, 19 disposals and 3.3 goals.

In round one of 1997 Carey dislocated his right shoulder for the second time in his career and missed much of the season. Upon his return, after a few games at Centre Half Back and some concern as to whether he would regain top form, he soon assumed his customary Centre Half Forward position and re-established himself as the games pre-eminent player in a Qualifying Final against Geelong. In a low scoring game, played in very wet conditions, Carey was dominant with 10 marks, 23 disposals an 7 goals straight, out of a team total of 11 goals.

In 1998, Carey returned to his best form and led North Melbourne on a club record 11 game winning streak, during which Carey registered 20 or more disposals and 5 or more goals six times, including two bags of 8 goals, and averaged 8 marks, 21 disposals and 4.3 goals per game. The winning streak ended on Grand Final day with a loss to Adelaide. For the season, Carey averaged 8 marks, 20 disposals and 3.2 goals per game. He again led the league in marks and contested marks and was runner up in the league goal kicking race behind Tony Lockett, with 80 goals.

Carey missed five games early in 1999 through injury, and spent much of the year in the forward line closer to goals. He averaged a career high 3.8 goals per game for the season, to go with 7 marks and 18 disposals, in another premiership year for the Kangaroos. In round 8, Carey's first game back from injury, he kicked 7 goals against Hawthorn. He then kicked 9 goals against Geelong in Round 16 (after kicking 8 in the first half), and followed it up the next week with a 10 goal, 12 mark and 24 disposal performance in a losing side against Essendon.

By season 2000, Carey had firmly established himself in the minds of most as the greatest player of the modern era and greatest Centre Half Forward ever to play the game. Stints at Centre Half Back and in the midfield that year saw Carey notch consecutive 30-plus possession games and add yet another dimension to his game. In an incredible run of form over 10 games between rounds 4 and 14, Carey averaged more than 19 kicks, 10 marks, 23 disposals and 3.3 goals per game. Towards the end of 2000 Carey began to suffer heavily from the debilitating groin condition Osteitis Pubis and his form subsequently slumped. For the season averaged 8 marks, 18 disposals and 3.0 goals.

Going into 2001 Carey struggled to maintain consistent form as he battled various injuries. Hey was not able to string more than 5 games together at any point during the season and in round 21, after playing 14 games that year, he played what would end up being his last game for the North Melbourne Football Club.

Even you must agree that ON-FIELD that record qualifies Carey as a champion.

Back on track, Goodes is awesome to watch when he is on song, he has suffered some inconsistencies, but probably all players do in their careers. There is no doubt that he will be a big hole to fill when he retires (albeit this is about 5 years away...)

[AnnieH]

So North didn't sign Carey from Sydney?

When was Carey signed to Sydney??
I've just read 10 articles on him, and none of them mention Sydney.

I think the closest he got was in 1990 when he played for NSW in the SOO.

Carey played for North Adelaide in the SANFL, before joining North Melbourne in 1989. He also played with the Adelaide Crows.

That year, Carey would represent New South Wales in State of Origin football and finish the 1990 season as runner up in North Melbourne?s best and fairest, behind Longmire. In round 13, a then 19 year old Carey took 8 marks, had 22 disposals and kicked 7 goals, 3 behinds in a big win over Sydney.