Adam Goodes and the best player in the AFL debate

[AnnieH]

[I]
Even you must agree that ON-FIELD that record qualifies Carey as a champion.

Back on track, Goodes is awesome to watch when he is on song, he has suffered some inconsistencies, but probably all players do in their careers. There is no doubt that he will be a big hole to fill when he retires (albeit this is about 5 years away...)

I DID read all of that in Wiki ... still doesn't mention when he played for Sydney.

When he was on-field, Carey was still a wanker. 40,000 people can't be wrong (remember "there's only one team in Sydney").

I can't be swayed. How about we agree to disagree eh?

[Margie]

If you're talking about ability to turn a game, then I agree with Kanga that Carey was one of the best. No doubting he was a fantastic player.

To me, top players are standouts in their teams - Judd, Ablett, Franklin and Goodes fit that bill. I'd put Goodes currently in the top 5 as far as natural talent and game-winning ability goes.

[reigning premier]

Love Goodesy but he'd be lucky to make the top 5 of current players let alone of all time.

No doubt he has the talent but he's just far to inconsistent. Maybe one day when his career is done and dusted we'll look back and say he was one of the greatest. But not at this stage.

And FWIW, yes, Carey was better then Goodes (So far).

[Dogzbody]

Franklin doesn't belong in this equation yet.....(he's unbelievable but not yet) I don't like his arrogance either, he'll come back to planet earth with a thud at some point. I love watching him and what he can do, we'll see what happens

Everytime I look a buddy doing his thing I think "young Richo"

Richo was the same...and then knnneeessss. Modern medicine will probably help buddy more than it did Richo but we'll see.

Ablett Jr, could well be "the greatest" he seems to me to be a combination of DNA, ticker, skill, brain, strong, culture....the whole lot in a frighteningly well balanced package...I can't see an ego getting in the way either.

Hird, Buckley are legends and will be considered the best for a long time. Voss is in with Carey a few rungs down.

Brown, I don't get it. Is obviously talented but hasn't consistently been dominant

Goodesy will go down as one of the greatest, and it will have nothing to do with Brownlows. I honestly think the best is yet to come. He'll never get accolades of grandeur while he is playing (i think thats how he likes it) and being at Sydney we won't get the over-inflated hype that other clubs get before they set foot on a field.

I love being a Swans supporter because we know our "greats" are better than what they get. I will also trust Annie on what she thinks as she is at Goodesy's house

[hammo]

I love being a Swans supporter because we know our "greats" are better than what they get.

Supporters of most clubs probably think their best player is also the best in the AFL, so that doesn't prove anything other than bias.

Most independent experts however would describe Goodes as prodigiously talented but inconsisent. Based on the past two seasons they would list Ablett, Franklin and Cox as better players for starters.

[ScottH]

Because ... (everybody together now ...)

Carey is a wanker.

Regardless, he was still an elite player.

[AnnieH]

Regardless, he was still an elite player.

... who now has serious "issues".

The higher the pedestal, the harder the fall.

[ScottH]

... who now has serious "issues".

The higher the pedestal, the harder the fall.

I'm only looking at the footballer. Not all elite sports people are great people.

[BSA5]

Goodes best player in the AFL? Please. There is a massive difference between "best" and "most versatile". Goodes is no doubt the most versatile (I have challenged people to name a position or role he has never played with some success, and the closest a person has ever gotten was tagger, but that was hours before he tagged Chad Cornes out of that game against Port last year), but consistency, over games and over seasons, lets him down, as does his overall ability in those positions (but only slightly). When he is playing well in the midfield, he is not as good as Judd or Gablett, etc, playing well. When he is playing well in the forward line (although this is slightly uncharted territory so far), he is not as good as Franklin, Fevola, Brown, etc, when they are playing well, when he is playing well in the ruck, he is not as good as Cox when he is playing well, and when he plays in defence, he isn't as good as McLeod, Kennelly, etc when they are playing well. His versatility makes up big points, and when he is at his ABSOLUTE best, he is better than more of those players at THEIR absolute best, but still, the best player in the competition that does not make.

On the topic of Franklin, those that say he isn't the best forward in the competition this year because his kicking is poor are using incredibly flawed logic. The fact is, he is still kicking enough goals. Who cares how many shots he takes to kick them? He has the ability to win those shots at goal in the first place. His kicking is poor. His ball winning ability in the forward line is good enough that he is still the best forward in the competition despite that, and his fantastic record (made only more impressive by the fact that he is contending with Roughead and Williams, two players I reckon are capable of winning the Coleman themselves, if they were used as primary avenues to goal) shows that. Add to that the fact that he also creates goals for his teammates with his freakish awareness and ground-level skills, and his ability to rotate through the midfield when he is having a rare poor game up forward and have an impact, and you have, in my opinion, the second best player in the competition this year (behind Ablett Jr).

[hammo]

Goodes best player in the AFL? Please. There is a massive difference between "best" and "most versatile". Goodes is no doubt the most versatile (I have challenged people to name a position or role he has never played with some success, and the closest a person has ever gotten was tagger, but that was hours before he tagged Chad Cornes out of that game against Port last year), but consistency, over games and over seasons, lets him down, as does his overall ability in those positions (but only slightly). When he is playing well in the midfield, he is not as good as Judd or Gablett, etc, playing well. When he is playing well in the forward line (although this is slightly uncharted territory so far), he is not as good as Franklin, Fevola, Brown, etc, when they are playing well, when he is playing well in the ruck, he is not as good as Cox when he is playing well, and when he plays in defence, he isn't as good as McLeod, Kennelly, etc when they are playing well. His versatility makes up big points, and when he is at his ABSOLUTE best, he is better than more of those players at THEIR absolute best, but still, the best player in the competition that does not make.

On the topic of Franklin, those that say he isn't the best forward in the competition this year because his kicking is poor are using incredibly flawed logic. The fact is, he is still kicking enough goals. Who cares how many shots he takes to kick them? He has the ability to win those shots at goal in the first place. His kicking is poor. His ball winning ability in the forward line is good enough that he is still the best forward in the competition despite that, and his fantastic record (made only more impressive by the fact that he is contending with Roughead and Williams, two players I reckon are capable of winning the Coleman themselves, if they were used as primary avenues to goal) shows that. Add to that the fact that he also creates goals for his teammates with his freakish awareness and ground-level skills, and his ability to rotate through the midfield when he is having a rare poor game up forward and have an impact, and you have, in my opinion, the second best player in the competition this year (behind Ablett Jr).

Great points & summary.

[Bleed Red Blood]

There is no debate, he is simply not the best player in the comp. Most versatile, sure, but afterall you can't play every position at once, and (except on a rare occasion) he isn't the best in the league at any of them.

[AnnieH]

Goodes best player in the AFL? Please. ... apologetic snip ...

Geez, who invited sense and reason to the party??

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I don't know how many times i have to repeat myself. Onfield Annie, onfield.

I do love the irony of picking him up from Sydney for $10k. Maybe that was a better deal than Grant for Schwass!!

What's ironic about that?

[giant]

Adam Goodes may be the most versatile of the players you've listed but he is also the most inconsistent.

Great players don't go missing for large parts of games, or entire games, as Goodes has done throughout his career.

Ablett, Franklin, Judd are consistently at the top of their game. Goodes only does it in bursts.

Ablett and Buddy have been at the top of the game for about 18 mths tops - they don't have anything like Goodes' record and they are no certainties to ever have.

[dimelb]

Carey? I'd rather have Robocop Jakovich.