Adam Goodes and the best player in the AFL debate

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  • Lohengrin
    On the Rookie List
    • Jul 2008
    • 641

    #91
    Originally posted by connolly
    If the player missed fifty percent of his shots and that represented, for example eighty percent of all shots at goal by his team then obviously the former.
    But you've missed the last part of my sentence and it's crucial. Franklin creates more shots because of his ability.

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    • connolly
      Registered User
      • Aug 2005
      • 2461

      #92
      Originally posted by Lohengrin
      But you've missed the last part of my sentence and it's crucial. Franklin creates more shots because of his ability.
      But he misses more shots because of his poor skill in kicking for gaol. He is a flawed (shocking kick) very very good footballer. Goodsey is an all round champion.
      Bevo bandwagon driver

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      • BSA5
        Senior Player
        • Feb 2008
        • 2522

        #93
        Originally posted by connolly
        So Franklin has more misses and is therefore more inconsistent than Magic. But is a better player. Is there a flaw in this logic? Bad kicking is bad footy. Period.
        Bad kicking is bad kicking. Kicking is one small aspect of footy among many. Period.
        Officially on the Reid and Sumner bandwagon!

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        • johnno
          On the Rookie List
          • Apr 2008
          • 1102

          #94
          Hallaluyah, its finally over.

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          • connolly
            Registered User
            • Aug 2005
            • 2461

            #95
            Originally posted by johnno
            Hallaluyah, its finally over.
            Not so fast Pancho. But kicking for goal is surely a major part of the game. Until Franklin straightens this out he will not be a great player.
            Bevo bandwagon driver

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            • BSA5
              Senior Player
              • Feb 2008
              • 2522

              #96
              Originally posted by connolly
              Not so fast Pancho. But kicking for goal is surely a major part of the game. Until Franklin straightens this out he will not be a great player.
              Wrong again. What matters it his output. A key forward goes out primarily to kick goals. They do that through a combination of creating opportunites, and converting those opportunites. How good a player is in one of these areas doesn't determine how good that player is. Buddy isn't very accurate, but he is incredibly good at creating opportunites, so good that it more than makes up for his poor kicking. The evidence? He is on track to kick over 100 goals this season. How many shots at goal he has is irrelevant, all that matters is that he has kicked those goals.
              Officially on the Reid and Sumner bandwagon!

              Comment

              • Lohengrin
                On the Rookie List
                • Jul 2008
                • 641

                #97
                Hawthorn are second on the ladder with 15 wins from 20 matches and Franklin has 91 goals, so that suggests he is a pretty decent player and Hawthorn is benefiting from his output.

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                • connolly
                  Registered User
                  • Aug 2005
                  • 2461

                  #98
                  Originally posted by BSA5
                  Wrong again. What matters it his output. A key forward goes out primarily to kick goals. They do that through a combination of creating opportunites, and converting those opportunites. How good a player is in one of these areas doesn't determine how good that player is. Buddy isn't very accurate, but he is incredibly good at creating opportunites, so good that it more than makes up for his poor kicking. The evidence? He is on track to kick over 100 goals this season. How many shots at goal he has is irrelevant, all that matters is that he has kicked those goals.
                  Wrong. Great players convert at very high percentages. Think of any great player - Skilton, Carey, Ablett, (not Mathews), Voss or Buckley. Superb kicks who had high conversion rates. Franklin is in the echelon below them. If Franklin was playing in a weak team his lack of conversion would compound the weaknesses of his team. He has kicked a lot of goals because of a dominant midfield. Great players are great despite the teams they play in (e.g. Skilton) not because of them.
                  Bevo bandwagon driver

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                  • BeeEmmAre
                    Commentary Team Captain
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 2509

                    #99
                    Originally posted by AnnieH
                    When was Carey signed to Sydney??
                    I've just read 10 articles on him, and none of them mention Sydney.

                    I think the closest he got was in 1990 when he played for NSW in the SOO.
                    Annie, it was in the 80s when zoning was still in place. Carey and Longmire were from southern NSW and as such were zoned to the Swans.
                    It's described earlier in this thread how Greg Miller poached them both from us for virtually nothing - it was a genius move from Miller and close to the greatest trade/draft stuff up of all time from the Swans' person involved that day.
                    "It's up to the rest of the players in the room to make a new batch of premiership players next year," Adam Goodes, triple Bob Skilton Medallist, October 7, 2011.

                    YOU BETCHA!!!!!!

                    Comment

                    • connolly
                      Registered User
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 2461

                      Originally posted by BeeEmmAre
                      Annie, it was in the 80s when zoning was still in place. Carey and Longmire were from southern NSW and as such were zoned to the Swans.
                      It's described earlier in this thread how Greg Miller poached them both from us for virtually nothing - it was a genius move from Miller and close to the greatest trade/draft stuff up of all time from the Swans' person involved that day.
                      Certainly ranks with that other trade disaster the Daniher brothers (for Nifty Nev Fields FFS)
                      Bevo bandwagon driver

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                      • Lohengrin
                        On the Rookie List
                        • Jul 2008
                        • 641

                        Originally posted by connolly
                        Wrong. Great players convert at very high percentages. Think of any great player - Skilton, Carey, Ablett, (not Mathews), Voss or Buckley. Superb kicks who had high conversion rates.
                        Ben Mathews is not a bad converter but not really a superb kick...

                        Conversion ratios:
                        Voss 57%
                        Buckley 53%
                        Carey 62%
                        Ablett 63%
                        Franklin 58%

                        Comment

                        • reigning premier
                          Suspended by the MRP
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 4335

                          Originally posted by connolly
                          Wrong. Great players convert at very high percentages. Think of any great player - Skilton, Carey, Ablett, (not Mathews), Voss or Buckley. Superb kicks who had high conversion rates. Franklin is in the echelon below them. If Franklin was playing in a weak team his lack of conversion would compound the weaknesses of his team. He has kicked a lot of goals because of a dominant midfield. Great players are great despite the teams they play in (e.g. Skilton) not because of them.
                          Ermmm.... I'd prefer to go with the guy that has the most goals or highest average score per game. Chances are, he's getting a hell of a lot mor oppurtunities I50 than those around him and THAT'S what matters.

                          Comment

                          • Industrial Fan
                            Goodesgoodesgoodesgoodes!
                            • Aug 2006
                            • 3318

                            Originally posted by Lohengrin
                            Ben Mathews is not a bad converter but not really a superb kick...

                            Conversion ratios:
                            Voss 57%
                            Buckley 53%
                            Carey 62%
                            Ablett 63%
                            Franklin 58%
                            That would be ratio of goals to behinds. Not taking into account OOBOTF or dropping short both of which Buddy does regularly.
                            He ate more cheese, than time allowed

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                            • Lohengrin
                              On the Rookie List
                              • Jul 2008
                              • 641

                              Originally posted by Industrial Fan
                              That would be ratio of goals to behinds. Not taking into account OOBOTF or dropping short both of which Buddy does regularly.
                              He still kicks a lot per game though!

                              He's going at 4.5 goals per game this year so although he's not great yet he's on his way!

                              Comment

                              • reigning premier
                                Suspended by the MRP
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 4335

                                Originally posted by Lohengrin
                                He still kicks a lot per game though!

                                He's going at 4.5 goals per game this year so although he's not great yet he's on his way!
                                Yeah yeah... I'd love to have someone kicking 4.5 for the Swans every week.. (Barry Hall.. Step in any time you feel free)....


                                But..... Is his kicking going to improve? I mean really? Have a look at Dunkley. Played 10 great years for the swans and had about the same amount of kicks. Plenty of other players that don't have a non-dominat-foot kick out there...

                                IMO, Buddy may very well be the guy that could of kicked 2000+ but failed to break Pluggers record....

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