153 games on, was / is Rocket a better coach?

[Plugger46]

Roos but I'm not a huge fan of either.

[hammo]

Roos by the simple fact he won a premiership. I'd like him to try to build the next premiership team though considering he inherited the last group.

[Mr Magoo]

Roos wins (only by four points ) for giving us a premiership and getting us to another grand final the following year but it is remarkable how similar things have started to become since then.

After the 96 grand final we did the same thing as we are now doing by hanging in the bottom of the eight and not really being a factor in the finals although turning up and showing promise in part during the season.

Even then everyone was saying we were doomed but during that time the next generation started to bloom . In part due to a new coach and in part due to growth of that next group.

[ernie koala]

Maybe he'll give the job to Horse, or somebody else. Who knows? But what Roos has done with the Swans is highly commendable indeed.

This, to me, is a worry. To have an outgoing coach dictate who will replace him, in this case his deputy, makes no sense. If we want to continue down the same line then why replace Roos at all? Any new coach should not be a Roos deputy, it should be some one coming in fresh, hopefully with new ideas. Given Horses' major role over the last few years, it would be same old same old to the players ears...ie stale and on the nose.

[Plugger46]

This, to me, is a worry. To have an outgoing coach dictate who will replace him, in this case his deputy, makes no sense. If we want to continue down the same line then why replace Roos at all? Any new coach should not be a Roos deputy, it should be some one coming in fresh, hopefully with new ideas. Given Horses' major role over the last few years, it would be same old same old to the players ears...ie stale and on the nose.

I fear the same thing. Although, Roos was one of Eade's assistants before he got the job. Hard to know when we're not at the club, as to how big a role the assistants play.

[connolly]

Well that player did deliver the end results, but it was a huge effort by some others to get the ball to him in the first place, so there are a few unsung heroes who can be attributed to that result as well.

Indeed Scott. How quickly we forget. How about the contributions of Ball, Williams (the greatest midfielder we had since Skilton) and Stewie Maxfield, who was key to the cultural chamge at the club. As for Eade, he coached in the Hawthorn style, and is a very intelligent coach. One problem with Eade was the Rocket in his soul. Roos not only won a premiership and should have won consecutive Grand Finals, (we won't go there), but we won them with a strategy, player management and revolutionary game plane. The best AFL coach since John Kennedy (the godfather of the Hawthorn style).

[swansrule100]

Indeed Scott. How quickly we forget. How about the contributions of Ball, Williams (the greatest midfielder we had since Skilton) and Stewie Maxfield, who was key to the cultural chamge at the club. As for Eade, he coached in the Hawthorn style, and is a very intelligent coach. One problem with Eade was the Rocket in his soul. Roos not only won a premiership and should have won consecutive Grand Finals, (we won't go there), but we won them with a strategy, player management and revolutionary game plane. The best AFL coach since Jihn Kennedy (the godfather of the Hawthorn style).

so paul williams is better than paul kelly, greg williams, gerard healy to name 3 who won brownlows and a few others?

whos the 2nd best since skilton? bevan?

[Lohengrin]

Roos not only won a premiership and should have won consecutive Grand Finals, (we won't go there), but we won them with a strategy, player management and revolutionary game plane. The best AFL coach since Jihn Kennedy (the godfather of the Hawthorn style).

So Roos is a better coach than Eade because he won a flag (which categorically wouldn't have occurred without Davis regardless of other players involved), but Roos is also a better coach than Sheedy, Malthouse, Matthews, Parkin, Blight, and Pagan who have won multiple flags?

[swansrule100]

robert walls won a flag too! anyone can

[NMWBloods]

I think Roos is a better coach in terms of player management while Eade is a better coach in terms of matchday tactics. I think the differences in their ability as coaches overall is minimal and I don't see the flag being such a meaningful tiebreaker.

[connolly]

So Roos is a better coach than Eade because he won a flag (which categorically wouldn't have occurred without Davis regardless of other players involved), but Roos is also a better coach than Sheedy, Malthouse, Matthews, Parkin, Blight, and Pagan who have won multiple flags?

Those coaches you named as multiple grand final winners all had better lists (particularly Mathews, the luckiest coach in the history of the game.). But the clincher is that Roos changed the way the game is played with tempo football. By the way it is really incredible that this thread should become another Davo strokefest. Mon dieu!

[connolly]

so paul williams is better than paul kelly, greg williams, gerard healy to name 3 who won brownlows and a few others?

whos the 2nd best since skilton? bevan?

Yep. Paul Williams was the best, particularly better than Greg Williams. More pace and better kick. Better kick and more skillful than Kelly. Healy was an outside receiver in a team of expensive mercenaries. If you won't accept he was the best midfielder since Skilton would you agree he was the best rover (to use the old fashion term)?

[ScottH]

Indeed Scott. How quickly we forget. How about the contributions of Ball, Williams (the greatest midfielder we had since Skilton) and Stewie Maxfield, who was key to the cultural chamge at the club. As for Eade, he coached in the Hawthorn style, and is a very intelligent coach. One problem with Eade was the Rocket in his soul. Roos not only won a premiership and should have won consecutive Grand Finals, (we won't go there), but we won them with a strategy, player management and revolutionary game plane. The best AFL coach since John Kennedy (the godfather of the Hawthorn style).

The much maligned Ablett had a big hand in it all too.

[liz]

I don't see the flag being such a meaningful tiebreaker.

But a flag and a GF back-up (to the narrowest loss possible) could be argued to be a meaningful tiebreaker.

Also look at what they did with the cattle they had. Eade inherited a team with 3 bona-fide superstars in Roos, Kelly and Lockett. Two were in the twilight of their careers but continued to play excellent footy for a couple of years under Eade. One was at the height of his career, having won the Brownlow the year before Eade took over. I think Kelly got a little better, if anything, from 1996 to mid 1998 when he did his knee, but essentially all three played at the level we knew they could.

Luffy, Dunkley and Stafford are the players who stand-out as suddenly emerging into pretty good players under Eade.

However, Roos' record is better in this department. Under him, Barry Hall turned from an ill-disciplined and erratic player into one of the best (and most consistent) power forwards in the comp. ROK emerged from slowish, slightly aggro tweener into one of the hardest running half forwards in the game. Bolton had the confidence instilled in him to go from fringe Lions player to AA defender. Kirk was on the verge of being delisted but instead turned first into tagger-supreme and then involved into one of the best clearance players in the competition. Jolly has turned from splinter-collector into a pretty decent ruck.

Sure there are "failures" there too. Whatever one's view of Davis, I think it is pretty clear that he and Roos are not a match made in heaven. And Roos himself admitted last year that Schneider failed to build on his early promise.

A lot of this - both the successes and the failures - has to be put down to the players themselves. But I think Roos has to be given credit for creating something that enabled these fringe players to emerge into very good AFL players.

[NMWBloods]

In terms of players I think Eade's team had more stars but Roos' team was more balanced. One of the problems with Eade's team was weakness in the bottom half dozen (Blight's maxim) whereas Roos had a better bottom half dozen IMO.

Still, as I said, Roos is the better player manager.