Goodes = Mathew Hayden

[Nico]

Great talent no doubt but rarely turns it on when it matters. What's the point of playing a blinder when the team has just conceded 13 straight goals?

And for that reason I agree with the rest of the football world that Goodes is over-rated as a player. Individually brilliant but incapable of single handedly turning a game - or even changing the momentum to a significant enough degree that others can help him swing a game.

No problem with the Brownlows, it is an individual award. But we know that Sydney is not about individuals (unless you can individualise yourself by constantly sacrificing your individulaity and gain a certain status as the bloke that stands out so much for never standing out - but that's a different gripe).

And to think that all these years I thought Bobby Skilton was a star and a legend. You don't know how horribly deflating that is ROK.

[ROK Lobster]

And to think that all these years I thought Bobby Skilton was a star and a legend. You don't know how horribly deflating that is ROK.

I reckon Bobby could have turned a game (from the stories we have been told). I don't think Goodes can. I think he needs the game to be won or lost before he turns it on. I am happy to be corrected but I cannot remember a time when he has played a blinder when the game was in the balance.

[bedford]

I reckon Bobby could have turned a game (from the stories we have been told). I don't think Goodes can. I think he needs the game to be won or lost before he turns it on. I am happy to be corrected but I cannot remember a time when he has played a blinder when the game was in the balance.

Be corrected, you are totaly wrong

[ROK Lobster]

Be corrected, you are totaly wrong

Thanks for the enlightenment. Can you refer me to a game or two where Goodes' brilliance has swung the game in the Swans' favour.

[kangle4]

How can we expect others to rate him when some of his supporters can't even see how brilliant he is? Sorry but this thread is ridiculous.

i agree. should he have just played as bad as the rest to make it ok?

he's a gun.

[ROK Lobster]

i agree. should he have just played as bad as the rest to make it ok?

he's a gun.

I don't think you understand...

[pinkemu]

Thanks for the enlightenment. Can you refer me to a game or two where Goodes' brilliance has swung the game in the Swans' favour.

That game a few years back at homebush against the Bombers (maybe 2003), although I think he swung the game from the first quarter

[Nico]

I reckon Bobby could have turned a game (from the stories we have been told). I don't think Goodes can. I think he needs the game to be won or lost before he turns it on. I am happy to be corrected but I cannot remember a time when he has played a blinder when the game was in the balance.

See Skilts played in a side way, way below the level of the team that Goodes has played in for all but 1 year. Our winning % was very low and he played to losing rucks when hitouts meant something. Try as he might, and as brilliant as he was, even he couldn't turn a game very often. He even played with the gifted and brilliant Max Papley but still they couldn't drag us over the line often enough.

Peter Bedford, now he was a different kettle of fish.

[Captain]

I hope this thread is a gee up. Otherwise it is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

wtf could Goodes have done better????

[SimonH]

Others have far more encyclopaedic memories of Swans' games than I, but one that anyone with even a passing knowledge of the Swans' recent history should know: qualifying final vs Port Adelaide, Football Park, 2003.

I reckon the game was in the balance when the score was 0:0. It was also in the balance in the last quarter when Port had clawed back and given themselves an outside chance of stealing an undeserved victory. At those times, and all times before and after those times, Goodes was a colossus, single-handedly lifting his teammates to perform above themselves to achieve a triumph that even the most optimistic Swans supporters had thought was impossible.

As others have pointed out, the idea that you're a flat-track bully because you perform brilliantly when your side is getting flogged by a quality opposition, hasn't been very well thought through. The anti-Hayden, maybe. Not that the theory fits the facts of this case anyway, as Goodes was continuing to play well before and during the Dogs' 13-goal streak. He was simply on fire all day.

[liz]

From where I was sitting at Manuka, Goodes looked to be doing his utmost in the first half when the rest of the team - with a couple of other exceptions - was woeful. He was the one player that the plentiful Dogs supporters groaned whenever he got the ball, because he looked like actually doing something with it.

Don't think there are many players in the game who can win a game off their own boot when they don't have a half dozen or so team mates willing to come along for the ride. Ablett was superb in last year's Granny, especially in the second half. Yet his star-studded Cats were unable to lift to his level. Judd has played some brilliant games for the Blues this year and last and yet his team has been soundly beaten.

[ROK Lobster]

Others have far more encyclopaedic memories of Swans' games than I, but one that anyone with even a passing knowledge of the Swans' recent history should know: qualifying final vs Port Adelaide, Football Park, 2003.

I reckon the game was in the balance when the score was 0:0. It was also in the balance in the last quarter when Port had clawed back and given themselves an outside chance of stealing an undeserved victory. At those times, and all times before and after those times, Goodes was a colossus, single-handedly lifting his teammates to perform above themselves to achieve a triumph that even the most optimistic Swans supporters had thought was impossible.

As others have pointed out, the idea that you're a flat-track bully because you perform brilliantly when your side is getting flogged by a quality opposition, hasn't been very well thought through. The anti-Hayden, maybe. Not that the theory fits the facts of this case anyway, as Goodes was continuing to play well before and during the Dogs' 13-goal streak. He was simply on fire all day.

Agree on the Port final - he was a match winner on that day and probably the difference.

I only saw the first quarter and some of the second quarter yesterday and did not notice Goodes particularly much. I would not have thought he was brilliant all day.

As for the Haydos analogy - with the exception of the first Test in India in that brilliant series I never thought him a match winner (or a match saver) in the same way as many others have been. He was a flat track bully but could also score runs when it was more difficult but never seemed to be able to drag a side over the line. I just get the feeling that Goodes is a bit the same.

As for captain's question - of course it is a gee-up. With the exception of some of the moronic responses I think it has generated a degree of interesting discussion. That was more or less the point.

[ROK Lobster]

Don't think there are many players in the game who can win a game off their own boot when they don't have a half dozen or so team mates willing to come along for the ride. Ablett was superb in last year's Granny, especially in the second half. Yet his star-studded Cats were unable to lift to his level. Judd has played some brilliant games for the Blues this year and last and yet his team has been soundly beaten.

For sure. You could include Ted Richards in the 06 GF too.

[Margie]

This IS a silly thread.

I'd still like to know how ROK canvassed "the rest of the football world" and concluded that they all agreed with him.

[ROK Lobster]

This IS a silly thread.

I'd still like to know how ROK canvassed "the rest of the football world" and concluded that they all agreed with him.

I agreed with them, that Goodes is over-rated. I know few suporters of other teams that consider Goodes to be the player that Sydney fans do.