In defense of Hall

[Lohengrin]

No defence of Hall in that situation. What was he doing with his left arm back holding the Hawthorn player's jumper? He does that too often. Too focussed on wrestling with his opponent rather than focussing on the ball. At one stage in the third quarter he was so busy wrestling that the ball bounced off his chest. Especially stupid when his Hawthorn opponent is strong but slow, while Hall is pretty quick and could have beaten him with some good leads, but seemed to prefer wrestling.

[goswannie14]

Jeez i was almost going to agree with you. But Hall was CRUCIFIED by an extraordinary inconsistency again by the umpires. Compare the Bevo free to the treatment Big Beamish received from the triple tag team they had on him. The Bevanators arm momentarily slipped over Williams shoulder. On several occasions Hall had defenders facing him and jumping into him. Don't you reckon that the Bevo free had something to do with Big Beamish's reaction. Players watch the big screen. Also there should be a thread on this but Roos reaction to the peanlties was simply disgraceful. A great coach does not humiliate a player in front of world by disciplining a passionate and courageous player like a school kid. Roos should have thrown him in at the next centre bounce and tried to harness the aggression and frustration or sent the message to him. Afterwards he should have dealt with it in-house. Roos has become less of a coach and more of a PR flak. Lost a lot of respect for him yesterday. Also where was the Dalai Lama with some calming words?? Very poor effort by Roos as well to denigrate Hall after the game. The big bloke is basically finished at the club but there is a thing called dignity and respect.

I meant the whole passage of play that ended in the free, that was the start of the momentum shift.

[connolly]

I meant the whole passage of play that ended in the free, that was the start of the momentum shift.

Fair enough to that. So it was the fact that we lost (from memory) five consecutive contested midfield contests that swung the game. And Roos blaming and shaming of Hall just diverts attention from the problem that was the root cause of the Freo, Bulldogs and Hawks disasters. A midfield that gets beaten at contested contests either when Kirk and Bolton are being rested, nullified or are just too shagged to do any more. Scapegoating players, as Roos did yesterday is no substitute for fixing problems.

[goswannie14]

Fair enough to that. So it was the fact that we lost (from memory) five consecutive contested midfield contests that swung the game. And Roos blaming and shaming of Hall just diverts attention from the problem that was the root cause of the Freo, Bulldogs and Hawks disasters. A midfield that gets beaten at contested contests either when Kirk and Bolton are being rested, nullified or are just too shagged to do any more. Scapegoating players, as Roos did yesterday is no substitute for fixing problems.

This isn't the first time he has done it.

[Lohengrin]

This isn't the first time he has done it.

And didn't someone actively support it in the past...?

[SwansFan1972]

I see a lot of posts arguing that Barry Hall is badly treated by the umpires. But this is not true, he does bring a lot of it on himself with his style of play and lack good body positioning and body work. This has become more evident since the rule changes that occurred around 2007.

etc ....

Sorry - have to take issue with some of those comments. The belief that Hall gets a raw deal is too widespread (and cuts across club lines) to be arrogantly dismissed as "not true". As for body positioning and body work, he is clung on to by limpets all the time and never gets the protection the rules demand. He is clearly on a blacklist with the umpires (and the reasons go further than just precious umpires being upset that he gives them more angry stares than anyone else in the league). The AFL wants him out of the game - have done for years - and have stepped up the pressure since the staker incident last year. The rule changes since 2005/06 have all been designed to nullify the swans strengths and Hall in particular. You don't embarrass demetriou by showing what a poor football judge he is (2005) and get away with it.

"The second 50, its up to Barry to move out of the players path with the free kick, which Barry didnt, its smart play by the player to get the extra 50. Barry should have got out of the way or sprinted back to resume the mark 50 metres down the track".

It would be nice for you to explain how Hally was supposed to get out of the way when the footage clearly shows Hall with his back to roughead, who deviated left to cannon into him. It was milked for all it was worth (which was not surprising - the hawks were milking the cows all day with great success). Presumably Hall could do with a pair of eyes in the back of his head so he can get out of the way better next time.

The AFL, media , rules committee and the sideline whinge brigade who are constantly bagging the game will soon get their wish (a non-contact, bump free, aggression free vanilla version of what used to be football). Hally is public enemy number one to these people, and they will never let up on him until he is out of the game. I'd love to see him get a fair crack and receive the love from the umpires that Lloyd and Riewoldt have enjoyed over their careers, but hell will freeze over before it happens.

[goswannie14]

It would be nice for you to explain how Hally was supposed to get out of the way when the footage clearly shows Hall with his back to roughead, who deviated left to cannon into him. It was milked for all it was worth (which was not surprising - the hawks were milking the cows all day with great success). Presumably Hall could do with a pair of eyes in the back of his head so he can get out of the way better next time.

The AFL, media , rules committee and the sideline whinge brigade who are constantly bagging the game will soon get their wish (a non-contact, bump free, aggression free vanilla version of what used to be football). Hally is public enemy number one to these people, and they will never let up on him until he is out of the game. I'd love to see him get a fair crack and receive the love from the umpires that Lloyd and Riewoldt have enjoyed over their careers, but hell will freeze over before it happens.

I had thought the same thing anout that comment, how the hell can Baz get out of the way of someone who takes a cheap shot at him from behind.

I said to someone the other day that if Hall was treated like Lloyd he would have kicked over 1000 goals by now.

[Lohengrin]

Hall clearly gets a raw deal from the umpires. But he hardly helps his case by actively scragging as well (in the big incident he was holding the Hawthorn player's jumper first), not to mention his complaining on every occasion, even when the free kick is not there. Lockett also used to get a raw deal, but he kept his mind on the job. Then again, he didn't have hands of concrete like Hall.

Crap delivery into the forward line doesn't help either - our poor forwards have had it pretty tough for a long time now.

As for the three 50m penalties, they were all there unfortunately.

[Roden]

If the AFL and the umpires don't want Sydney to be competitive, just say so. The umpiring was pathetic and one sided - again. I'm tired of watching it, its becoming a joke like the NRL. Hall is a liability to the Swans. Not because he is a bad player, but because he is treated unfairly by umpires. Roos doesn't help by criticising his players - especially Hall and Goodes. Would have been nice if Roos had stood up for his players and the blatent and pathetic umpiring that they put up with week after week. Its enough to drive any sane person off their game.

[stellation]

The umpiring was frustrating at times, but I'm sure it was for Hawthorn fans too (I think the deliberate out of bounds that we got a free kick from was pretty harsh, as an example). I don't think we really have a conspiracy against us, I think it's just a result of playing "hard, contested footy" with some guys that give their heart and soul but times just lack the skill and leg speed to stick with their opponents.

I did think the 2nd 50 on Hall was pretty poor though, I've only seen the one replay of it but from memory he looked to have his arms up saying "Are you suggesting I was less than respectful to an official? Surely not, good sir?" and a passing Hawk flew into one of the engines.

[skaterboi1973]

It would be nice for you to explain how Hally was supposed to get out of the way when the footage clearly shows Hall with his back to roughead, who deviated left to cannon into him. It was milked for all it was worth (which was not surprising - the hawks were milking the cows all day with great success). Presumably Hall could do with a pair of eyes in the back of his head so he can get out of the way better next time.

He just had to step to the side and out of the path of the player. Pretty simple. The Hawks player didnt deviate that much from the path if at all. Barry should have jogged with the umpire, kept his arms down, or moved out of the area (10 metres i believe it is in the laws).

As for limpets holding him, if he lead instead of pointing in the air for the kick to be kicked long to him then he wouldnt have much of an issue. A player his size should be able to clear a path for himself, wouldnt mind if he gave a kick away whilst leading, at least it would make the players filling holes think twice, ala Plugger. Also, as was evident in the video, he initiated the holding by grabbing the hawks players jumper.

I grant you there are times when Barry Hall gets a rough deal, but he does bring a lot of it on himself by the way he plays. You mentioned Lloyd and Rienwoldt.. two players who predominantly lead. Makes you think.

[RogueSwan]

I see a lot of posts arguing that Barry Hall is badly treated by the umpires. But this is not true, he does bring a lot of it on himself with his style of play and lack good body positioning and body work. This has become more evident since the rule changes that occurred around 2007...

Too true.
My wife , who has a just a little bit more than a passing interest in the Swans is astounded by Halls marking skills or lack of. Sure he can take one on the lead but, compared to Magic, Goodes, Pebbles and even B1, he struggles to take a good contested mark.

[Lohengrin]

Hall is too much of a sook. He gets more frees than Lockett used to. He also gets more than Neitz and on a par with Carey and Dunstall. The difference is that he gives away stacks of free kicks through scragging and untidy tackling. Players like Riewoldt and Tredrea don't do that sort of thing. Even J Brown, who is big and not liked by umpires, gets a pretty good go because he is so focussed on the ball.

[SwansFan1972]

I grant you there are times when Barry Hall gets a rough deal, but he does bring a lot of it on himself by the way he plays. You mentioned Lloyd and Rienwoldt.. two players who predominantly lead. Makes you think.

Hall leads and they ignore him. After how many ignored leads should he keep trying? Ignoring him as consistently as they do when he leads would be forgivable if they then kicked to a team-mate freed up by that lead, but they don't. They hold it up and eventually just bomb it in hope. In years gone by they could afford to hold it up and pin-point a pass, but the skill level isn't there in the midfield to do that these days.

After being ignored, he doubles back and they drop it on his head when he is double and triple teamed. There is thinking that needs to take place alright - in the midfield.

He busted his arse leading and running in the cats game (for example) and not once did they use him well - the responsibility for that rests solely on the midfield, yet Hally cops all the heat.

As for the bringing it on himself, either the rules are there to be enforced or not. Being a sweetheart towards the umpires should make no difference, but it clearly does. It is obvious that the umpires turn a blind eye to clear infractions on Hall - he is treated differently. Frustration then sets in and then the merest suggestion of a free from Hall gets paid, along with a few that are just plucked from fantasy land. Puts into perspective all the blarney the AFL puts out about the umpires, and their decision making processes - they umpire what they see, they don't guess etc etc.

Oh - and we all think about the game - obviously. Fortunately we don't all just fall into line and agree - would make for a rather dull forum, if you think about it.

[COBHC]

Barry Hall is a legend. Roughead is nearly as soft as Adam Hunter now.