Two ruckman

[Captain]

With LRT back to being played in position and White being the latest 2nd ruck scapegoat, there has been little talk on whether Seaby and Mummy can play in the same team.

I personally believe they can and they must. Seaby is in too good form and is too good a player to drop.

A few weeks ago it didn't seem the common consensus, is it now?

[RBS1]

I don't think you can with the new sub rule , you just end up getting run off your feet as shown in the Carlton game. Everything is relative to the side you are playing but I reckon we have to go in with 1 and have white and LRT giving mummy a chop out

[wolftone57]

I don't think you can with the new sub rule , you just end up getting run off your feet as shown in the Carlton game. Everything is relative to the side you are playing but I reckon we have to go in with 1 and have white and LRT giving mummy a chop out

I don't agree with you Carlton played two ruckmen , Hampson & Cruizer, West Coast play two ruckmen, so will the Dockers now the young bloke is performing so well. I know the Hawks want to & put Roughead back at CHF, collingwood use Leigh Brown who started as a socond ruck & moved forward at North. Geelong only use Ottens.

[wolftone57]

Using a forward as second ruck upsets the forwardline as the replacement in the frowardline, the ruckman, or a bench replacement, changes the forward set up totally. The best scenario is having two ruckmen who are very good in the forward line & can play the old forward pocket resting ruck role.

[aardvark]

Play Mummy at FF....

[Ruck'n'Roll]

While I respect the sheer number of people that seem to favour the "replacement rule killed the second ruckman" school of rehashed banality. I think it nonsense. Against the Crows we only played 1 ruckman and they made to look slow in that game (and Carlton are way quicker than the crows). So I don't think the problem is with playing two ruckmen.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

FWIW I'd give the majority of time to Seaby in the first half, swapping with Mummy off the bench. Then substitute him off halfway through the third qtr. Mummy and Jesse can swap between full forward and ruck for the last qtr and a half.
It'd certainly cause less disruption up forward (both Sam Reid and TDL need a "big" up there to be effective).

[wolftone57]

While I respect the sheer number of people that seem to favour the "replacement rule killed the second ruckman" school of rehashed banality. I think it nonsense. Against the Crows we only played 1 ruckman and they made to look slow in that game (and Carlton are way quicker than the crows). So I don't think the problem is with playing two ruckmen.

I think you are right & Carlton play two ruckmen. It is not lack of pace as such it is the fact that we are allowing sides to get the overlap by using the forward defensive zone, which is not working, and they end up with a player in the open & very hard to run down even if you have the pace.

[wolftone57]

FWIW I'd give the majority of time to Seaby in the first half, swapping with Mummy off the bench. Then substitute him off halfway through the third qtr. Mummy and Jesse can swap between full forward and ruck for the last qtr and a half.
It'd certainly cause less disruption up forward (both Sam Reid and TDL need a "big" up there to be effective).

you would still play Jesse? I think Jesse needs to kick up the dew!

[Robbo]

Not being able to play two ruckmen because of the sub rule is starting to look like a myth, as others have suggested. Seaby has been excellent in the last month and it would be wrong to drop someone in that kind of form regardless of how big he is.

However I think we have a bit too much height down back. Playing 3 tall defenders against Adelaide was dumb as they only had 1 genuine tall forward.

[wolftone57]

I think you are right & Carlton play two ruckmen. It is not lack of pace as such it is the fact that we are allowing sides to get the overlap by using the forward defensive zone, which is not working, and they end up with a player in the open & very hard to run down even if you have the pace.

I forgot to say I think we match up pretty badly on Carlton, Geelong, Pies & Hawks this year & I think we would have real problems with West Coast unless we get used to playing players who suit the side we are playing against. We just pick a team & stuff the match ups it seems. Sometimes some of the players, some who might be our experienced players, do not match up well on a side but we play them anyway & try to squeeze the match ups to suit us. In the end this fails because either we lack pace or height or ability in the skills area. You need to look at a side & play players who match up on them well & if this means a couple of our experienced players need to bite the dust for a week or so, so be it. the other clube play this way. Geelong take an extra tall in against Carlton & collingwood. The Hawks put in exta pace against Carlton & dropped an experienced player.

[Captain]

Essendon were even playing 3 ruckmen at one stage. Whilst that's over the top it surely indicates 2 ruckmen is fine, regardless of the sub rule.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Play Jesse?
Frankly yes. . . .
1) LRT needs more game time down back to rejoin the defenders club. So I'd discount him.
2) I am absolutely convinced that Reid and TDL need a "big" up there to be effective. The "big" is partly a dummy or decoy forward.
3) Playing a ruckman at full forward is not practical, ours lack sufficient mobility to be effective except as a short term "shock value" ploy.
4) So Jesse or Spanky are the only "big" options I see, and I think Jesse is the better pinch hitter in the ruck.

[Melbournehammer]

apart from the fact that I have created a sense of amusement for ruck n roll I generally agree with his/her post. I dont think playing a ruckman at ff works unless the ruckmen is really athletic and mobile - hence you can have a paddy ryder or a dean cox or nick nat play there. ours are not. mummy plays his best game on the ball where his second efforts are great and if it werent for the sling tackle rule he would be a fearsome sight in there. I like seaby a lot. but I also think he struggles unless he is played on the ball. He is not a ff in the modern era where most full backs gather half their possessions forward of centre or on the wing - the modern ruck/ff needs to be able to run and jump and run and jump and tackle. Jesse can do most of that and in fact from the last two games seems to gain most of his possessions as clearances....which may be both a positive and a negative but it certainly doesnt say that he is hopeless in rucking situations

And LRT is simply not there yet. i have never been LRT's greatest fan (and hence feel free to discount what i say by about 25%) but the fact that tippett took 4 contested marks in a game where the total number of contested marks was about 24 was not exactly a tremendous return.

[jono2707]

I think we should play both - it's likely that the Suns will play at least two of Fraser/Smith/Gorringe so we should want to match up on them I would think. Also Mummy may be short a run and could do with a hand, from a proper ruckman that is. We can sub off a tall as the game goes on if required. Jesse should be left up forward and hopefully get a bit of confidence going.