Two ruckman

[Plugger46]

Seaby's fine as the first choice ruckman but I don't think he'll provide enough as the second ruckman.

Look no further than the Carlton game for evidence of this.

He's been OK in the last month, excellent as some have suggested is over-doing it IMO.

[dimelb]

I think we should play both - it's likely that the Suns will play at least two of Fraser/Smith/Gorringe so we should want to match up on them I would think. Also Mummy may be short a run and could do with a hand, from a proper ruckman that is. We can sub off a tall as the game goes on if required. Jesse should be left up forward and hopefully get a bit of confidence going.

I agree with this, having said for some time now that I can't understand why we don't play two ruckmen.
And I'm prepared to give Jesse another go in dryer weather.
LRT needs time down back to help stabilise the defence. We are beginning to have an embarrassment of riches in tall defenders.

[swansrule100]

mummy and seaby seem to both play better as the number one ruck. We will probably run mumford into the ground if we let him go, but he seems to love rucking out the whole game and being the man, im not sure they can play together unless the coaching panel rid the competitive aspect for the number 1 ruck mantle.

Just my impression they might love playing together.

[swansrule100]

I forgot to say I think we match up pretty badly on Carlton, Geelong, Pies & Hawks this year & I think we would have real problems with West Coast unless we get used to playing players who suit the side we are playing against. We just pick a team & stuff the match ups it seems. Sometimes some of the players, some who might be our experienced players, do not match up well on a side but we play them anyway & try to squeeze the match ups to suit us. In the end this fails because either we lack pace or height or ability in the skills area. You need to look at a side & play players who match up on them well & if this means a couple of our experienced players need to bite the dust for a week or so, so be it. the other clube play this way. Geelong take an extra tall in against Carlton & collingwood. The Hawks put in exta pace against Carlton & dropped an experienced player.

i agree, we pick the side containing the players with say the best record or who have been the best over their careers, well it seems that way. For instance we will go kennelly, mattner, shaw, malceski all in the same side if fit even if it doesnt work for match ups. We can just chuck kennelly on a tall he has some height or shaw can run into the middle. Same as defenders, we pick richards, lrt, grundy and johnson all in the one side even when its too many big defenders, because we wouldnt want to have to drop one of the older blokes now Johnson is the form player.

[Captain]

because we wouldnt want to have to drop one of the older blokes now Johnson is the form player.

Off the point a little, but Johnson's kicking is pretty rubbish.

[On-Baller]

I don't agree with you Carlton played two ruckmen , Hampson & Cruizer, West Coast play two ruckmen, so will the Dockers now the young bloke is performing so well. I know the Hawks want to & put Roughead back at CHF, collingwood use Leigh Brown who started as a socond ruck & moved forward at North. Geelong only use Ottens.

Good point but i believe your 2 examples there show why we need to play a 2nd part time ruckmen.Nic Nat and Matty Kruiser both play like ruck rovers when running around in the ruck,they have awesome mobility and both are great forward options as well.

Unfortunately Mummy and Seabs dont,Mummy is great on the ground when fit but he is going to struggle for fitness all this season.
If the sub rule wasnt in place yes i believe they could.Pyke is a massive injury for us as he actually has the most nous on the forward line,Mummy and Seaby dont excite me when they've been forward.

Id like to see Spangher given the go as the part time ruckmen,couldnt be any less effective than White or Lrt.

And yes Essendon had 3 rucks at one stage but again Hille can actually play as a forward effectively and Ryder runs around like a ruck rover,to me it depends on how versatile and mobile your second ruck is.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

seaby dropped. Longmire admits can't play 2 rucks. "seaby is a bit stiff" he said

How would he know if we could play 2 rucks?

[BSA5]

Off the point a little, but Johnson's kicking is pretty rubbish.

Johnson's kick is actually very good. Awkward style, and a bit up and under, but he judges, directs and weights his kicks very well indeed. His kicking is actually very much in the Kirk-mould. Not pretty, not penetrating, but he knows his limitations and has good control.

[tez]

Start Seaby at full forward to provide a marking target. He can take the congested mark, is not a bad kick and this would break that silly short passing turn over type game we fall into.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Thanks to whoever edited this thread, it got a bit heavy.

As a post script
While I don't believe we have ever tested the possibility of playing 2 traditional ruckmen in the same lineup properly. But if we ever were going to try it properly, this would be the week.

Because the Suns play 4 of them Gorringe and Thompson maybe striplings, but Fraser and Smith are the real deal. The Swans are going in with an underdone Mummy and a mixed bag of pinch hitters. I reckon that is a pretty clear statement of opinion for the selection committee.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Paul Roos noted some time ago that to win a premiership you needed 2 genuine ruckmen. A funny thing happend on Saturday . . . . . . .

The team with 2 ruckmen defeated the team with one ruckman and a pinch hitter to win the grand final.

While there may be questions about Jolly's fitness etc. etc. It does suggest that the "experts" who spent this season trumpeting the impossibility of playing 2 ruckmen wouldn't know there arse from there elbow!!!!!!!!!

[Nich]

I forget who it was over the Weekend but there was a quote from a Geelong player/Staff, maybe even Tom Hawkins Dad? that said the key to Tom was leaving him alone in the Forward line and relieving him of any Ruck duties. They were certain Tom having to play Ruck and Forward was negating any improvement he was trying to make as a Forward. I thought that was interesting. Obviously we can't compare Tom and Jesse with 100% likeness but I would agree that as a young player Jesse needs to play forward and nothing else. Only then if/when he begins to master that role should he be considered to help out in the ruck if needed.

[swansrob]

I forget who it was over the Weekend but there was a quote from a Geelong player/Staff, maybe even Tom Hawkins Dad? that said the key to Tom was leaving him alone in the Forward line and relieving him of any Ruck duties. They were certain Tom having to play Ruck and Forward was negating any improvement he was trying to make as a Forward. I thought that was interesting. Obviously we can't compare Tom and Jesse with 100% likeness but I would agree that as a young player Jesse needs to play forward and nothing else. Only then if/when he begins to master that role should he be considered to help out in the ruck if needed.

Horse said the same thing earlier this year. Didn't stop him making Jesse play that role, however...

[Bas]

I forget who it was over the Weekend but there was a quote from a Geelong player/Staff, maybe even Tom Hawkins Dad? that said the key to Tom was leaving him alone in the Forward line and relieving him of any Ruck duties. They were certain Tom having to play Ruck and Forward was negating any improvement he was trying to make as a Forward. I thought that was interesting. Obviously we can't compare Tom and Jesse with 100% likeness but I would agree that as a young player Jesse needs to play forward and nothing else. Only then if/when he begins to master that role should he be considered to help out in the ruck if needed.

Horse said the same thing earlier this year. Didn't stop him making Jesse play that role, however...

Chris Scott spoke about this on OTC last night and I made comment in a different thread about the similarities to Jesse.

[jono2707]

I agree with the sentiments of keeping Jesse up forward the whole time and giving him a chance to properly develop in the role. I think it means that we have to keep at least two of Seaby, Pyke and Currie on the list and that we'll need to play two ruckmen often next year. Both Seabs and Pyke seem to go ok when used elsewhere on the ground as well and ruckmen these days really need that sort of flexibility. If we want a Leigh Brown type pinch hitter next year make it LRT - he did reasonably well in the role at times this year - leave Jesse as a forward only and hopefully we'll see some real improvement in 2012 from him.