Now we are into Pre Season

[Reggi]

For me the disappointment of this year is too much to too few, it looked like we had some players just not fit enough for AFL

Jesse White - not getting the best out of himself, to bulked up, needs a bigger motor to get himself in more dangerous positions, still think he has talent, doesn't have the work rate but needs to get himself fitter, a lot fitter

Craig Bird - We are not going to win many games on big grounds until we get some good running strength, we sorely miss players like Fosdike, Crouch and Kirk. Did not have the run for an MCG final, needs to get a lot fitter or move him on. Like him but not a good enough runner for top level AFL

Brett Meredith - four years or so seemed to turn up with the fitness and strength of an average first year player

Lewis Johnston - as above, not fit enough clearly

Lewis Jetta and TDL - again plenty to work on, TDL could play with some more body strength, both need a much bigger work rate

Nick Smith - Wonder if this guy could press into the midfield if he could get himself fit enough, doesn't seem it at the moment

Matt Spangher - as above get fitter

Kieran Jack - needs to get back to his best fitness wise

Skill level is an issue, but there is still a massive work rate difference between some of our team and Collingwood, Geelong and Hawthorn, need to bridge that gap. Hopefully some of these guys put in a much bigger pre season

[goswannie14]

Such a work rate difference that we beat Geelong and went within one goal of beating Collingwood. Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Primmy]

Re Jesse. He already has the motor. Its the rest of it. And it took Tom Hawkins five years to play like he did in the GF. He wasn't much chop before that. I am stunned that he finally became the player the coaches suspected he could be, on the one day when it mattered. So I hold out high hopes for Jesse, like the coaching staff have done. I have seen him train many times, and he has it all, except in buckets on game day when it is needed most. But after seeing Tom Hawkins play, I am relaxing a bit.

[Triple B]

Such a work rate difference that we beat Geelong and went within one goal of beating Collingwood. Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Seemed a pretty fair assessment to me, don't necessarily agree about LJ, but we do need to get harder to consistently raise our game week in, week out.

Even in bad years you can pick a game or two where the team works hard for 4 quarters and grabs a great win. I'll see your Geelong and Collingwood games and raise you the Richmond/Fremantle/Adelaide garbage served up.

Those totally god awful games are something you rarely, if ever, see from the true flag contenders. Which in itself is encouraging because we are capable of lifting to that level when a few of our good young players mature a bit more...

[liz]

I think Reggi's observations seem pretty reasonable, though in most cases it is easy to understand why the players don't have the endurance - almost certainly injury related. Whenever a player (from any club) has a break-out season, they invariably attribute it to having an unbroken pre-season (often their first injury free pre-season for years). Daniel Wells is a good example from this year.

IIRC, Jesse has injured his ankle in each of the last two pre-seasons, which has caused him to miss a month or so of training around January. We know about Bird's foot issues which clearly have curtailed his training load. LJ had his first full pre-season a year ago, so despite being on the list for 3 years, has only had one full pre-season. Spangher was injured for almost the entire pre-season and much of the actual season proper.

Smith was the one name on Reggi's list that took me back a little, in the sense that his fitness was adequate to perform his role in the team to a high level. But he himself has identified fitness as an area to work on in his post season review, so I guess it is reasonable to include him on the list.

[Gezball]

hmmm.... yeah i don't agree that it all a matter of fitness... I think skill and simply the fact that the seniors have a fair few young players which are still developing plays a big part...

[goswannie14]

Seemed a pretty fair assessment to me, don't necessarily agree about LJ, but we do need to get harder to consistently raise our game week in, week out.

I certainly agree with that, consistent performance is something we have been lacking for a number of years, but it was way more evident this year. Even in 05 we struggled at times through the year. It's the consistency of the top teams as well as fitness that we need to match......not just fitness, although there could be a very solid argument to make that the two are inextricably linked.

[sfan]

Lewis Johnston - as above, not fit enough clearly

reminds me of Vespremi - lots of talent but does not look fit enough. Struts a bit as well

[goswannies]

Jesse White - not getting the best out of himself, too bulked up, needs a bigger motor to get himself in more dangerous positions, still think he has talent, doesn't have the work rate but needs to get himself fitter, a lot fitter

I'm not suggesting that Jesse is anything like Plugger, but when Lockett made his comeback, he'd lost lots of weight & got a lot of fitter ... but defenders just threw him around a lot more. In his prime, Plugger's strength was... well his strenghth.

Jesse isn't a bad set shot. If he could hold his marks a little better, his bulk may assist him as a key forward...an athletic, immoveable man mountain with a quick lead.

[Steve]

That's the real problem with guys who have regular injuries over multiple seasons - they find themselves way off the elite fitness required, and it will take a couple of injury-free years to make any great inroads.

I think our poor skill level (by foot) absolutely kills us - in the obvious way (ie. turnovers), but also the resultant lack of confidence to move the ball quickly, switch play, hit-up a teammate 25m away in space in the corridor etc. Instead we're limited to kicking long, around the boundary, relying on us dominating clearances (which even when that works means you're having a lot of shots from acute angles, adding to our poor conversion). Other teams employ similar tactics, but for the better teams it isn't their only option.

We do need to get fitter, find more runners etc - but we still need the ability and confidence to hit teammates to either get them in space, or get it to them when they're in space.

[ScottH]

I think Reggi's observations seem pretty reasonable, though in most cases it is easy to understand why the players don't have the endurance - almost certainly injury related. Whenever a player (from any club) has a break-out season, they invariably attribute it to having an unbroken pre-season (often their first injury free pre-season for years). Daniel Wells is a good example from this year.

IIRC, Jesse has injured his ankle in each of the last two pre-seasons, which has caused him to miss a month or so of training around January. We know about Bird's foot issues which clearly have curtailed his training load. LJ had his first full pre-season a year ago, so despite being on the list for 3 years, has only had one full pre-season. Spangher was injured for almost the entire pre-season and much of the actual season proper.

Smith was the one name on Reggi's list that took me back a little, in the sense that his fitness was adequate to perform his role in the team to a high level. But he himself has identified fitness as an area to work on in his post season review, so I guess it is reasonable to include him on the list.

Same with Smith. Seemed pretty fit out there to me, keeping close check on some of the forwards he played on would have taken a good deal of fitness.

Jack struggled big time after his ankle injury, and was never the same player. I expect him to tear it apart next year fully fit. By August team will be tagging him, not the other way around.

[DamY]

Re Jesse. He already has the motor. Its the rest of it. And it took Tom Hawkins five years to play like he did in the GF. He wasn't much chop before that. I am stunned that he finally became the player the coaches suspected he could be, on the one day when it mattered. So I hold out high hopes for Jesse, like the coaching staff have done. I have seen him train many times, and he has it all, except in buckets on game day when it is needed most. But after seeing Tom Hawkins play, I am relaxing a bit.

Amen

[Bas]

Such a work rate difference that we beat Geelong and went within one goal of beating Collingwood. Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Everyone knows Geelong are too old and too slow.

Mugpies were still looking at their Grand Canyon photo's.

You really have to look at those results with greater detail than just the result.

They both played in the Grand Final and we didn't. We faced a St Kilda under very questionable coaching circumstances in the first final and clearly out played in the second final.

On the Couch - Gerard pointed out Jesse's lumbering and it's probably not so much fitness as it is endurance. The guy was drafted at Pick 732 so he has done pretty well considering.

Nick Smith has shown that he is very quick over short distances but like the others, they need to do it for 4 quarters.

[Damien]

I wouldn't be comparing Hawkins with White, I think their careers have been totally different. Hawkins has now played in two premierships and while he has been much maligned at times, his work rate has generally been pretty good, he even won the AFL Army award in the 2009 Premiership year.

I'm pretty harsh on White (and I feel its justified), but if he has a big pre season and approaches 2012 with "all or nothing" type of attitude and takes that into every contest, I can see he may well be a major asset. Sitting in M35 yesterday at the Grand Final , watching Hawkins and Co just compete at every contest and follow up with 2nd efforts got me daydreaming about the potential of our forward line.

On that, Sam Reid is the one we need to be a big improver but different to White, bit of bulk over summer and about 2099987 hours in front of goal!! I have high high hopes for Sammy Reid, I reckon he can be a mega-superstar.

[Ratna]

That's the real problem with guys who have regular injuries over multiple seasons - they find themselves way off the elite fitness required, and it will take a couple of injury-free years to make any great inroads.

I think our poor skill level (by foot) absolutely kills us - in the obvious way (ie. turnovers), but also the resultant lack of confidence to move the ball quickly, switch play, hit-up a teammate 25m away in space in the corridor etc. Instead we're limited to kicking long, around the boundary, relying on us dominating clearances (which even when that works means you're having a lot of shots from acute angles, adding to our poor conversion). Other teams employ similar tactics, but for the better teams it isn't their only option.

We do need to get fitter, find more runners etc - but we still need the ability and confidence to hit teammates to either get them in space, or get it to them when they're in space.

I agree with this Steve, there is a possibly a few issues with fitness and some with not having explosive pace from packs that breaks lines (except Goodes and he is not getting any younger so unfortunately I don't see his minutes in the midfield increasing).

The thing that has been most frustrating at times this year is skill level. No matter how quick and fit you are unless you can hit free players or kick the ball to your players advantage in a contest you end up second best.

This is accentuated at times when the ball is kicked long to a contest on the boundary time after time. I hate it when there is a man free in the corridor and no one even looks because why would you hit a free man in a dangerous attacking position when you can kick to a 50:50 on the boundary.