Essendon Football Club Drama

[goswannie14]

It appears that they culd be in for quite a large penalty, Hird included http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-new...#ixzz2cmNZota1

[Ludwig]

It appears that they culd be in for quite a large penalty, Hird included http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-new...#ixzz2cmNZota1

It's sad to see so many people hurt by what appears to be largely the work of own individual. The football community have a right to know if the allegations made by the AFL in the Charge Sheet are true. If they are, then Hird should get a lifetime ban. I don't care about any other penalties. And it would be unfair to go overboard on peripheral parties. The players will suffer plenty with the specter of drug charges overhanging them for the rest of their careers, for who knows when someone like Dank will crack someday (perhaps under a plea bargain) and turn over enough evidence to hang them. I don't believe for a moment that there aren't (or weren't) records on who was injected with what. In any case, I am certain that Dank and others know enough to reconstruct any missing records. Most fans can remember numerous stats and particulars on most of the players on the team they barrack for. Certainly these characters can remember who they injected with what. There must have been lists and schedules of supplements that they referred to often.

The AFL is in a real hole. I have a very bad feeling that if the entire truth were to come out it could be curtains for Essendon, which would be just too damaging for the AFL to accept. Contrary to the public perception that it's the AFL vs Essendon, it is nonsense to think that the AFL want to send one of their big money spinners into oblivion. I certainly don't, and it is foolish for any opposition fan to want to see their favourite sport come into disrepute (although the Melbourne tribal rivalries are rabid). The real problem is ASADA and WADA, because they are out of the control of the AFL (or so it seems), and they can ruin the party by handing out suspensions as they see fit.

The way I see it, if you pulled one person out of this picture, James Hird, this never happens. And for those wondering , I swear that I am not Caroline Wilson.

And for those doubters that players were regularly given banned substances, read this:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-science-of-stephen-dank-20130823-2shhd.html

[goswannie14]

It's sad to see so many people hurt by what appears to be largely the work of own individual. The football community have a right to know if the allegations made by the AFL in the Charge Sheet are true. If they are, then Hird should get a lifetime ban. I don't care about any other penalties. And it would be unfair to go overboard on peripheral parties. The players will suffer plenty with the specter of drug charges overhanging them for the rest of their careers, for who knows when someone like Dank will crack someday (perhaps under a plea bargain) and turn over enough evidence to hang them. I don't believe for a moment that there aren't (or weren't) records on who was injected with what. In any case, I am certain that Dank and others know enough to reconstruct any missing records. Most fans can remember numerous stats and particulars on most of the players on the team they barrack for. Certainly these characters can remember who they injected with what. There must have been lists and schedules of supplements that they referred to often.

The AFL is in a real hole. I have a very bad feeling that if the entire truth were to come out it could be curtains for Essendon, which would be just too damaging for the AFL to accept. Contrary to the public perception that it's the AFL vs Essendon, it is nonsense to think that the AFL want to send one of their big money spinners into oblivion. I certainly don't, and it is foolish for any opposition fan to want to see their favourite sport come into disrepute (although the Melbourne tribal rivalries are rabid). The real problem is ASADA and WADA, because they are out of the control of the AFL (or so it seems), and they can ruin the party by handing out suspensions as they see fit.

The way I see it, if you pulled one person out of this picture, James Hird, this never happens. And for those wondering , I swear that I am not Caroline Wilson.

And for those doubters that players were regularly given banned substances, read this:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl/...823-2shhd.html

Whisly I understand whatyou are saying, I don't see WADA and ASADA as a problem. Personally I would like nothing more than Essendon Football Club banned forever from the elite competition. It could open the door for all sorts of possibilities for the expansion of the game.

[barry]

To guess the penalty, you have to compare it to other afl issues.

I see it as about the same as Carltons Salary cap abuses. They missed two Draft s which sent them to the bottom of the ladder for 5 years.

Much we worse than melbourne tanking or adelaide/tippet.

So id expect loss of points this year, big fine, and banned from next two drafts.

Hird also needs to be banned from coaching for at least 2 years so they dont just sit him out

[ShockOfHair]

A helpful backgrounder.

The Essendon supplements scandal explained | Sport | theguardian.com

The writer makes this troubling point:

On a broader level, the episode has also brought into question the level of obsequiousness shown by players in submitting to such a programme, as well as the role of a seemingly lawless football machine compelling them to do so. Football coaches will often use the phrase "he's done everything we've asked of him" as a kind of measuring stick for the ideal pupil; a player who can be shaped, moulded and launched off a production line and onto the field in pursuit of victory.

[CureTheSane]

I'd be pissed if they only lose their 2013 premiership points.
They ain't goin' nowhere in the finals this year anyway.
Bit too much sympathy around for the players for my liking as well.
These guys were happy to tie off their arms, seemingly either knowing what was going on or "no questions asked"

[Ludwig]

You would think that at least a few players would have had discussions among themselves questioning the injection program they were involved in. And if so, what would they do? Go to their captain for advice? The team doctor? Or are the players so robotic that they would accept anything they are instructed to do?

Yet contrast that behavior to the expectations of personal responsibility by the AFL/ASADA regarding drugs, or the punishment that Tippett received for not challenging his employer and manager in legally technical matters.

There is something out of whack here in the reality of how clubs are run and what expectations of personal responsibility are for the players. There is an analogy here to the conflict soldiers face between orders they are obliged to follow and responsibilities regarding war crimes.

[CureTheSane]

I agree with you.
But there are so many precedents in this area.
I don't necessarily agree that AFL players and other athletes should be penalised so heavily, but society seems to dictate that.
Same with football players etc as "role models", or movie stars who should accept that their lives are open slather.

But in the end, ignorance is no defense. It's not like this is a new thing.
You'd have to say that the whole Essendon team (bar one) are complete and utter idiots to go along with what happened, and they should all be penalised for being so stupid.

Like someone said, the AFL is at the crossroads in what they can do.
Not sure yet whether the actions Essendon have taken, and statements made will turn out to be good or bad for the club.
At the moment it's looking like coming back on the front foot has pushed the AFL into a corner they don't like.
Either follow through and potentially kill Essendon, or back off and be submissive for the good of the game.

My prediction is, loss of premiership points for 2013, loss of draft picks for 2 years and Hird banned for 2 years.
I think the public will accept that - anything less and there will be crying and sooking.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

It appears that they culd be in for quite a large penalty, Hird included http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-new...#ixzz2cmNZota1

And the same situation seen from a different point of view. Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

[CureTheSane]

And the same situation seen from a different point of view. Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Losing 2013 premiership points is now a slap on the wrist.
Season is gone anyway.
Draft picks are a bare minimum for the club to have to deal with.
Given the (now seemingly incredibly harsh) penalties handed down to other clubs for salary cap infringements, and tanking etc, missing draft picks is a must.
Let them play finals and their season will be over quickly anyway.

Also, what's the point of a 12 month ban for Hird?
Minimum 2 years or don't bother.

[Ludwig]

It would be a treat to see Essendon play finals. They will probably come up against either Collingwood or Richmond, whose fans will just crucify them. It will be a bigger penalty allowing them to play than not.

[royboy42]

Losing 2013 premiership points is now a slap on the wrist.
Season is gone anyway.
Draft picks are a bare minimum for the club to have to deal with.
Given the (now seemingly incredibly harsh) penalties handed down to other clubs for salary cap infringements, and tanking etc, missing draft picks is a must.
Let them play finals and their season will be over quickly anyway.

Also, what's the point of a 12 month ban for Hird?
Minimum 2 years or don't bother.

Any ban on Hird will fnish his coaching career, whether it's a year or six months. Could you imagine the awful publicity dropping on the team that ever hired him to coach again?
And I agree losing 2012 points is nothing. Draft picks have to come into play, otherwise the whole thing is a slap on the wrist.
Don't forget asda and wda haven't called any penalties yet either....they won't rush..remember Armstrong.

[Jewels]

It would be a treat to see Essendon play finals. They will probably come up against either Collingwood or Richmond, whose fans will just crucify them. It will be a bigger penalty allowing them to play than not.

Yep, almost worth a trip to Melbourne to witness it in person!

[dimelb]

Another side of their club - and ours. Mrs d and I were there and it was a good night, lots of supporters from both clubs, funny and touching stories from some senior larrikins.

Link men

[Wardy]

It's sad to see so many people hurt by what appears to be largely the work of own individual. The football community have a right to know if the allegations made by the AFL in the Charge Sheet are true. If they are, then Hird should get a lifetime ban. I don't care about any other penalties. And it would be unfair to go overboard on peripheral parties. The players will suffer plenty with the specter of drug charges overhanging them for the rest of their careers, for who knows when someone like Dank will crack someday (perhaps under a plea bargain) and turn over enough evidence to hang them. I don't believe for a moment that there aren't (or weren't) records on who was injected with what. In any case, I am certain that Dank and others know enough to reconstruct any missing records. Most fans can remember numerous stats and particulars on most of the players on the team they barrack for. Certainly these characters can remember who they injected with what. There must have been lists and schedules of supplements that they referred to often.

The AFL is in a real hole. I have a very bad feeling that if the entire truth were to come out it could be curtains for Essendon, which would be just too damaging for the AFL to accept. Contrary to the public perception that it's the AFL vs Essendon, it is nonsense to think that the AFL want to send one of their big money spinners into oblivion. I certainly don't, and it is foolish for any opposition fan to want to see their favourite sport come into disrepute (although the Melbourne tribal rivalries are rabid). The real problem is ASADA and WADA, because they are out of the control of the AFL (or so it seems), and they can ruin the party by handing out suspensions as they see fit.

The way I see it, if you pulled one person out of this picture, James Hird, this never happens. And for those wondering , I swear that I am not Caroline Wilson.

And for those doubters that players were regularly given banned substances, read this:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl/...823-2shhd.html

THIS!!!!

Kevin Sheedy said on 360 last week that the time has come make Dank talk! He is central to this and what's happening in the NRL - yet he seems to do as he bloody well pleases - yet the collateral damage has been huge. My nephew was sacked from Cronulla (he was he physio) yet it was he and the club doctor who discovered the problem - went to the coach saying it had to stop -but the coach said " stop the injections" and that was it - so the nutty professor & the head trainer (now at another club) used pills & creams instead but told players not on tell the Doc - phys & doc still found more problems, went to the coach again and said "either he goes or we go" and dank was gone. He was only at the sharks for 11 weeks. But at Manly fr 4 years with the weapon ! You cant tell me that He didnt weave his cs pokus at Manly...So when that awful Friday night news in February came that 4 were sacked from the sharks - my niece found out that her husband had lost his job on the top billing onnthe 5pm news - he hadn't rung her because HE WAS STILL IN THE MEETING BEING SACKED WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED!!!! So who leaked it?? so this is a very emotional subject for me - to see how people's lives were turned upside down because of the irresponsible actions of others is heart breaking - yet the people actually responsible dont seem to have to answer to anyone!