trade requirments

[Steve]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
How many years has he played as the first or second tall defender?

0. That's my point.

Dunkley and Schauble have.

Saddington may not have been the key defender for most of his career, but he has played in defence for most of that time.

He always needed to actually play on guys like Carey to learn how to play them - merely being within the vicinity of Dunkley and Schauble while they grapple with key forwards will have done nothing.

It would be interesting to look at who Saddington has played on from opposition clubs each time we've played them - I'd suggest very rarely would it be the same players. You compare that to a Dunkley who'd over a 5-year period play on the same guys twice a year - obviously you're going to get better at something the more times you do it.

IMO it's very harsh judging Saddo on the times he's played on key forwards in recent times - in most cases it was a once-off out of the blue b/c Dunkley or Schauble weren't available.

In effect that's been quite unfair on him - basically saying 'you haven't done it for a while, but we need you to do it today, but you won't do it again for a while either'.

[NMWBloods]

My key point is the one below.

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Saddington may not have been the key defender for most of his career, but he has played in defence for most of that time. He's done some good jobs but I don't think he's really stood out on a regular basis on the players he has been against. If he hasn't made a name for himself as a premier defender in general, why will he do so at CHB? When I watch Saddington in the back line, I don't think it is as reassuring as watching other defensive players.

He's an okay player but hasn't really stood out. Sure he would improve playing more games at CHB against some of the premier forwards. However, he hasn't really shown he can comfortably beat, on a regular basis, some of the lesser-lights in the competition.

If after over 100 games, most of which playing on the "weaker" opposing forwards, he hasn't stood out despite all that opportunity to do so, why will he become a good CHB with some opportunity?

[Steve]

I don't really know what you mean by "hasn't stood out", particularly the reference to "playing on the "weaker" opposing forwards".

I'm not sure what you're (retrspectively) asking of him - how many times has he been convincingly beaten? Even the couple of times Tarrant has kicked goals on him at Colonial IMO he did a very good job (and they were games we won).

He has always done his job - my point is that it isn't his fault that he hasn't been regularly given bigger jobs.

You have to groom a player to become a CHB. It is a specialised position - you look at most of the good CHB's and they were given time at a young(ish) age to learn the position and develop - it isn't a case of starting your career playing on the 6th best forward, then the 5th, then the 4th etc until you get to the 1st.

[NMWBloods]

Simply put, I don't rate him as a great defender - I think both Bolton and Schauble are better. The former has played half as many games as Saddington and the latter only a couple of dozen more. Maybe he wasn't given the prime defensive opportunities earlier because they didn't believe he was up to it.

[barry]

I agree with NMWBloods. Saddington does not reak of premeirship CHB material. And he is fast running out of his too young, too immature body excuse.

If there is still hope within the swans coaching staff that he can hold down CHB, then he will have to deliver in 2004.
Otherwise its flanker or trade bait. I prefer flanker, if we can get in a CHB/FB, or LRT or James step up.

[Triple B]

Steve, you may as well give up, it isn't getting through.

For what it's worth, I agree with your point of view, as does Reggi (from his posts).

You have done an excellent job of putting Saddington's case forward.

Fortunately the club, who I have every confidence have a better idea of a players worth and value than a group of faceless fanatics, also seem to agree with your view. This will be confirmed next week when they laugh at opposition clubs who offer draft picks and assorted hacks for his services.

[Rob-bloods]

There are many facets to a game, I have always had a problem with Sadds lack of hardness, but what about his disposal?

It seems I am the only one to mention his handpass and kicking is amongst the best we have! And he is a solid mark, I agree with the posters that he should punch more. (John Kennedy "Team rule, if you don't punch from behind you will not play!" or similar).

[Reggi]

Originally posted by BBB
Steve, you may as well give up, it isn't getting through.

For what it's worth, I agree with your point of view, as does Reggi (from his posts).

You have done an excellent job of putting Saddington's case forward.

Fortunately the club, who I have every confidence have a better idea of a players worth and value than a group of faceless fanatics, also seem to agree with your view. This will be confirmed next week when they laugh at opposition clubs who offer draft picks and assorted hacks for his services.

Yep what he said - gotta say seen some pretty dumb comments made on this subject - will probably have to have another 'humble pie' thread on this one next year

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by BBB
Steve, you may as well give up, it isn't getting through.

For what it's worth, I agree with your point of view, as does Reggi (from his posts).

You have done an excellent job of putting Saddington's case forward.

Fortunately the club, who I have every confidence have a better idea of a players worth and value than a group of faceless fanatics, also seem to agree with your view. This will be confirmed next week when they laugh at opposition clubs who offer draft picks and assorted hacks for his services.

What a load of unadulterated bull@@@@. Did it ever occur to you that I understand his point but simply don't agree with it. At what point did you or anyone else decide that we can't provide a critical evaluation of our players. What a crock!!

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Reggi
Yep what he said - gotta say seen some pretty dumb comments made on this subject - will probably have to have another 'humble pie' thread on this one next year

So you're saying that he is a great defender?

I love the old "humble pie" serving. Some people here never criticise players, unless it completely obvious they are finished, and are always saying such and such will improve. Then they congratulate themselves if they are "correct", but never point out when they are wrong. To question a player who is not performing as well as some others and needs to improve is hardly something shocking to do and is not deserving of a serving of humble pie either. These players get paid a lot and need to perform regularly - not too many other jobs give you so many chances to "improve." However, some of you can comfortably sit on your higher ground in your erroneous belief that you are the oracle of all that is Swans football.

[caj23]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions

I think that Steve has convinced me now that we should persevere with him when last week i wasn't so sure.

In any event i can't see Carlton parting with their second pick for him and i can't see Roosy parting with Saddo for a lesser deal than that

[Triple B]

Posted by MNWBloods

At what point did you or anyone else decide that we can't provide a critical evaluation of our players.

Never did I reply to you and suggest you not criticise anybody.

I suggested to Steve that he was wasting his time putting a valid argument forward because it was falling on deaf ears.

MNWBloods may I ask you a question?

Do you agree that Saddington's year was almost completely ruined by injury. Yes or No.

[NMWBloods]

I have no problems perservering with him, as I have said before. I think he has a long way to go to be a really good CHB, and the lack of experience in that position is maybe some excuse, however other players don't need that excuse, and in some ways I think it's a bit of a stretch. I think he needs to do a lot of work on his defensive play.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by BBB
Posted by MNWBloods


Never did I reply to you and suggest you not criticise anybody.

I suggested to Steve that he was wasting his time putting a valid argument forward because it was falling on deaf ears.

MNWBloods may I ask you a question?

Do you agree that Saddington's year was almost completely ruined by injury. Yes or No.

No you did not reply to me, but given that Steve was mainly debating with me and most of the recent opinions were mine, it's hardly a huge leap to think that your comments are mainly directed at me.

Again I will reiterate that his arguments are not falling on deaf ears. There is some merit to it, but also I think there is some way it smacks of being an apologist for him.

Saddington has undoubtedly had an interupted season with injury. Nevertheless, I see signs in him that don't make him one of our best defenders. I think Bolton is more reliable than Saddo (and with far less experience), and I wonder if Roos also thinks that given that Bolton gets some of the tougher jobs in preference (eg: Neitz, Richardson).

I've not said that Saddo is crap nor needs to be traded, however I think that some improvement in his game is needed if he is to be a key defensive player. After all, he does have over 100 games up, so the argument of still learning only carries some weight. His decision-making ability with regard to punching and marking is one of his glaring weaknesses, and his recovery is not always that good.

That said, I've always been a fan of his and have looked forward every year to significant improvement, however most times he hasn't quite measured up IMHO.

[Reggi]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
So you're saying that he is a great defender?

I love the old "humble pie" serving. Some people here never criticise players, unless it completely obvious they are finished, and are always saying such and such will improve. Then they congratulate themselves if they are "correct", but never point out when they are wrong. To question a player who is not performing as well as some others and needs to improve is hardly something shocking to do and is not deserving of a serving of humble pie either. These players get paid a lot and need to perform regularly - not too many other jobs give you so many chances to "improve." However, some of you can comfortably sit on your higher ground in your erroneous belief that you are the oracle of all that is Swans football.

To be direct and honest I think you're speaking ****. To tell me that Saddington both hasn't played good football and good football at CHB ain't true cause I've seen him do it.

What is annoying is some feel free to take pot-shots at players - with no explanation other than the usual "i just reckon".