We've had enough McGuire!

[wolftone57]

Do they give you any reason for rejecting the article Wolftone?

Just an auto rejection. don't know why. On the main AFL site you can't post a thread but AFL Live you can but it rejected.

[wolftone57]

The AFL are not going to stand up to McGuire publicly. People on this forum do not understand the political ways of the World if they are calling for the AFL to publicly censure Eddie. Good relations with Eddie are essential to any AFL executive doing their job effectively and more importantly keeping their position. Just think about your own jobs and whether it would be wise to get on the wrong side of key stakeholder in the Business.

According to a Caroline Wilson article Gill McLachlan got the top AFL job with the full backing of Eddie McGuire. Part of the arrangement involved Garry Pert (Collingwood CEO) not being in the running for the top job and backing McLachlan for the top job. You cannot expect Gill McLachlan to now publicly go to war on Eddie for one AFL team in a non-AFL state. Conversations with Eddie will conducted with the AFL behind closed doors and any complicated issue will have a review. As long as the Swans keep their Academy structure I?m happy with the AFLs handling of the matter.

I believe Gill McLachlan deserved the top job, but I sometimes wonder if a brash NFL Executive with no existing relationships with any person in AFL land, would have been a more astute choice for the top job. Someone like that could look at the AFL with a blank sheet of paper and make decisions on the best interests of the AFL without any fear of getting anyone offside.

If this is the case Matt80 then the AFL is damned and finished. There is no way a major code can be so influenced by one man and survive. The main reason I say this is that this man's personality is such that he may split the AFL for good. Sydney, Brisbane, GWS, Adelaide, GCS, Port, WCE, Freo all refusing to play Pies. They all have some beef with Eddie. Add to that Norf, Saints, & Demons. They hate the man. While Hawks hate him the hierarchy at Hawks, Bombers, Carlton and possibly Richmond, the rich Victorian clubs, will all back Eddie like they did in the equalisation debate. But Cats are totally anti Eddie and will even split from the AFL before they see Eddie as it's president as he wants to be.

This man is devisive and is splitting the AFL into camps. But let me be clear, he does not have the backing of most of the Victorian clubs either so McGlachlan, if he has any guts, will bring it into the open. otherwise he is a spineless bastard and deserves the sack.

[Auntie.Gerald]

while we are talking about change
i thought i would cut and paste a very interesting article by Jim Collins (an oldie but a goodie)
i think it is relevant to the effect of Eddie and what we want as supporters....... but just ignore if you feel not relevant

Jim Collins - Articles - Good to Great

There is a direct relationship between the absence of celebrity and the presence of good-to-great results. Why? First, when you have a celebrity, the company turns into ?the one genius with 1,000 helpers.? It creates a sense that the whole thing is really about the CEO. At a deeper level, we found that for leaders to make something great, their ambition has to be for the greatness of the work and the company, rather than for themselves. That doesn?t mean that they don?t have an ego. It means that at each decision point?at each of the critical junctures when Choice A would favor their ego and Choice B would favor the company and the work?time and again the good-to-great leaders pick Choice B. Celebrity CEOs, at those same decision points, are more likely to favor self and ego over company and work.

[Matt80]

If this is the case Matt80 then the AFL is damned and finished. There is no way a major code can be so influenced by one man and survive. The main reason I say this is that this man's personality is such that he may split the AFL for good. Sydney, Brisbane, GWS, Adelaide, GCS, Port, WCE, Freo all refusing to play Pies. They all have some beef with Eddie. Add to that Norf, Saints, & Demons. They hate the man. While Hawks hate him the hierarchy at Hawks, Bombers, Carlton and possibly Richmond, the rich Victorian clubs, will all back Eddie like they did in the equalisation debate. But Cats are totally anti Eddie and will even split from the AFL before they see Eddie as it's president as he wants to be.

This man is devisive and is splitting the AFL into camps. But let me be clear, he does not have the backing of most of the Victorian clubs either so McGlachlan, if he has any guts, will bring it into the open. otherwise he is a spineless bastard and deserves the sack.

The assertion you have just made is a major exaggeration. The AFL is not going to split and teams are not going to refuse to play Collingwood. The Rugby League Super League war has taught us all that splitting competitions does not work in this country.

The AFL will calmly listen to Eddie and then say let?s call a review. The AFL then calmly calls Eddie in to the office and informs him that the review has stipulated that the Academy?s in the Northern States produce the occasional excellent player (Heeney, Mills and Jack Steele) but overall it?s a good mechanism to:

- Lift the standard of Football in non-AFL States.
- Strengthen AFL local competitions.
- Suck good athletes away from Rugby League, Union and Soccer.
- Provide extra players needed to fill 18 AFL Teams.
- Increase local love and grass roots support to the four Northern AFL Clubs and the AFL competition. This is particularly important when crowd and viewer numbers are stagnating in Victoria. The AFL need crowd and viewer numbers to grow in the Northern States so they can improve the TV rights deal and support the 10 Victorian AFL Clubs.

Eddie will be calmly informed that taking away Academy incentives will stop the four Northern Clubs investing in them and the system may collapse.
He will disagree with what?s being said, but could not argue that he did not get a fair hearing from the AFL.

This is the way that Business gets done in the AFL and the Red and White community have to accept this.

I also disagree with your assertion that Gill McLachlan deserves the sack because he will not intervene in a spat between two Club Presidents. He is a highly intelligent operator who is playing a good strategic game in the interests of the wider AFL and it?s ludicrous to suggest that he should be sacked if he does not take your advice.

[CureTheSane]

Everyone seems pretty fired up by this.

I'm enjoying it.
Great publicity for the Swans, and Eddie just keeps on digging deeper holes for himself.

I think everyone needs to keep in mind just how biased we all are as Swans supporters who's team is being targeted by Eddie.
Not sure why anyone thinks the AFL would regard any passionate submission to them as being fair and level headed.

I think there is a small bit of merit to what Eddie is saying about the academy, he's just presenting it in a ridiculous way.
Look at it from a different point of view.
We have a super dooper team at the moment.
We have great depth.
We have 2 flags in the last 8 years and have played the finals for that time and more.
We have drafted Kurt and Buddy, with all of the controversy that came with COLA etc
At some point we need to look at giving a bit back to the competition - remembering that the competition supported our move to Sydney and therefore our survival.
I am the exact opposite of an Eddie fan.
I cannot stand him for many many reasons, and the way he has acted and spoken recently have been childish and 'tantrum(ey)'

We don't think for a second that what Eddie does is for the 'fairness of the competition' but rather to remove the unfairness as he sees it.
And there may be some merit to some of what he says...

[wolftone57]

while we are talking about change
i thought i would cut and paste a very interesting article by Jim Collins (an oldie but a goodie)
i think it is relevant to the effect of Eddie and what we want as supporters....... but just ignore if you feel not relevant

Jim Collins - Articles - Good to Great

There is a direct relationship between the absence of celebrity and the presence of good-to-great results. Why? First, when you have a celebrity, the company turns into ?the one genius with 1,000 helpers.? It creates a sense that the whole thing is really about the CEO. At a deeper level, we found that for leaders to make something great, their ambition has to be for the greatness of the work and the company, rather than for themselves. That doesn?t mean that they don?t have an ego. It means that at each decision point?at each of the critical junctures when Choice A would favor their ego and Choice B would favor the company and the work?time and again the good-to-great leaders pick Choice B. Celebrity CEOs, at those same decision points, are more likely to favor self and ego over company and work.

Yes it is very dated. @@@@@ Mae is now a basket case. Kimberly Clark had their problems too. The thing I got from that was companies can go from mediocrity to greatness and back to mediocrity just as quickly. So with the AFL this is also possible without the right management and with Eddie proving the spoiler it could go down the tubes very quickly. No media want to buy marred production. If the AFL can't get it's house in order the media are going to start withdrawing support because the product becomes tainted. Once the product is unsellable the media drop it. I hope it never gets to that stage. That is why the AFL must step in now!

[rojo]

Unfortunately the Swans are out on a limb a bit. The WA & SA teams, especially the WA teams with their big supporter bases and wealth have no worries. It is not in their interests to rock the boat or concern themselves too much with Melbourne paranoias. North of the border the Swannies have got a bit offside with Brisbane for 'poaching' Kurt Tippet and with GWS for ending up with Buddy. I may be wrong but I doubt that the Swans can look too much to them for support.

Our only ally with an understanding of the issues who is willing to speak up on our behalf it seems is Sheeds, good on him, but as he is prone to embroidering the facts to suit his purposes (like Eddie) maybe his support is a mixed blessing!

Any changes to the operation of the Academies and the current preferential selection system are going to be really important - not so much in the way they affect the Swans and Brisbane but will indicate how serious the AFL are about having strong clubs and therefore a strong power base in the Northern states going forward, when there is already fear in Melbourne of the dominance of interstate clubs - and justifiably so I have to admit! Only time will tell.

Beware the Swans with their backs to the wall I say. Go Swannies!!!

[Auntie.Gerald]

Yes it is very dated. @@@@@ Mae is now a basket case. Kimberly Clark had their problems too. The thing I got from that was companies can go from mediocrity to greatness and back to mediocrity just as quickly. So with the AFL this is also possible without the right management and with Eddie proving the spoiler it could go down the tubes very quickly. No media want to buy marred production. If the AFL can't get it's house in order the media are going to start withdrawing support because the product becomes tainted. Once the product is unsellable the media drop it. I hope it never gets to that stage. That is why the AFL must step in now!

agree wolf

all businesses even if successful for a 15 year period can still take a nose dive

BUT part of the reason i popped down the article was that the people involved in making the important decisions need to be people of great integrity and I must say with the way Eddie has been acting he is not becoming of a leader, he craves the celebrity status, he constantly feels the need to be heard.

Hence my gut feeling that the elders of the game need to stand up now and and pull him back in line

Sheedy has started the process

[ShockOfHair]

Matt80 is right that McLachlan isn't going to censure Eddie.

There are so many short-lived puffs of 'controversy' surrounding the game that the league is wise to be wary about intervening. You don't have to be a rabid Swans fan to see that Eddie is making a fool of himself - another not so rare occurrence that AFL CEOs are careful not to be tainted by. There's no-one in his corner, while Pridham says three club presidents have called him to support the Swans' stance. Plus, McGuire hasn't said anything meaningful that anyone can actually comment on. If you take him at face value he seems to be saying league kill off all of the academies, which is laughable.

[tasmania60]

Matt that's one of the truest things anyone has said about the AFL. Sorry to knock them but it seems its getting a bit political !

[Ludwig]

The various issues can stand or fall on their own merits. Few of us on here are dissatisfied with the eventual outcome of the COLA debate. And the footy community in general seem happy enough.

The real point is that one man has become obsessed with his own self-importance and has been given too much latitude and power over the years and there isn't any apparent plan to reign him in. He has an enormous conflict of interest in his role as both Collingwood president and media personality. He uses his plethora of media platforms to spruik his pet peeves, something which has brought him excessive influence over a number of important issues.

I am not in a position to pass judgment on how influential he was to the revival of Collingwood in 2000. New players, new coach; things change. Certainly he is going to take the credit and use it to fuel his ego. No one will doubt his obsessive work ethic. He's a hard man to ignore.

There seems to be more of a willingness lately to stand one's ground and fight back as his statements become ever more outlandish and fallacious. But I still find there is too great a propensity for passing him off as simply an outspoken lover of football who has done more good for the game than bad.

The fact that he's 'out there' doing a lot of stuff shouldn't grant him immunity to publicly ridicule players, coaches and executives from other clubs. If he wants to be a Mark Robinson or Caroline Wilson type that's fine; let him have his opinions. But if he want's to be an insider in the capacity of a club president, there should be a minimum standard he should be held to, just as players much adhere to minimum standards of behaviour.

I feel that McGuire has caused great pain and mental anguish to Red and White footy tragics by insulting and ridiculing the most prominent members of our family: Our coach, our chairman and our games record holder and Australian of the Year. Imagine the outrage if Richard Colless had called Scott Pendlebury 'a dog'. Well Eddie McGuire has done a lot worse to us.

It's amazing that he's allowed to get away with it.

[Matt80]

Matt that's one of the truest things anyone has said about the AFL. Sorry to knock them but it seems its getting a bit political !

Thanks mate. I think if you work as an executive at the AFL, then you have to be smart. If you publicly berate Eddie as an AFL officer, then he would be quietly talking to his mates on the commission.

He would then use the media to frame an agenda against you and the AFL.

It's smart to be polite to Eddie, take his calls or call back quickly and call a review on any contentious issues.

You then let him down gently on issues such as the Academy and make him feel like he is having a good hearing.

Well done AFL. It's good Business to handle Eddie the way you are.

[Auntie.Gerald]

i suppose you could sum that one up in one word !

anironfistinavelvetglove !!!!

Persuasion first !
crowbar second ?

[Meg]

Thanks mate. I think if you work as an executive at the AFL, then you have to be smart. If you publicly berate Eddie as an AFL officer, then he would be quietly talking to his mates on the commission.

He would then use the media to frame an agenda against you and the AFL.

It's smart to be polite to Eddie, take his calls or call back quickly and call a review on any contentious issues.

You then let him down gently on issues such as the Academy and make him feel like he is having a good hearing.

Well done AFL. It's good Business to handle Eddie the way you are.

Matt, I for one am not suggesting that the AFL should 'berate' McGuire. That would be unprofessional. However after so much negative publicity, incorrect allegations and subsequent confusion of the true position on COLA and the academies I do think it is time for the AFL to put out an objectively worded statement of facts to clarify the record. For example, I suspect few journos actually understand the role, administration and funding of the academies. At the moment the terrific work they are doing is being tarnished.

[Rob2120]

The assertion you have just made is a major exaggeration. The AFL is not going to split and teams are not going to refuse to play Collingwood. The Rugby League Super League war has taught us all that splitting competitions does not work in this country.

The AFL will calmly listen to Eddie and then say let?s call a review. The AFL then calmly calls Eddie in to the office and informs him that the review has stipulated that the Academy?s in the Northern States produce the occasional excellent player (Heeney, Mills and Jack Steele) but overall it?s a good mechanism to:

-Lift the standard of Football in non-AFL States.
-Strengthen AFL local competitions.
-Suck good athletes away from Rugby League, Union and Soccer.
-Provide extra players needed to fill 18 AFL Teams.
-Increase local love and grass roots support to the four Northern AFL Clubs and the AFL competition. This is particularly important when crowd and viewer numbers are stagnating in Victoria. The AFL need crowd and viewer numbers to grow in the Northern States so they can improve the TV rights deal and support the 10 Victorian AFL Clubs.

Eddie will be calmly informed that taking away Academy incentives will stop the four Northern Clubs investing in them and the system may collapse.
He will disagree with what?s being said, but could not argue that he did not get a fair hearing from the AFL.

This is the way that Business gets done in the AFL and the Red and White community have to accept this.

I also disagree with your assertion that Gill McLachlan deserves the sack because he will not intervene in a spat between two Club Presidents. He is a highly intelligent operator who is playing a good strategic game in the interests of the wider AFL and it?s ludicrous to suggest that he should be sacked if he does not take your advice.

+1 this is exactly how it it will conclude.

The Swans are for the first time, not only favourites for the premiership but also considered as the most talented list. This has never happened in Sydney before and we all know Sydney loves a winner. The current situation with Eddie is starting to interest the Sydney media. Eddie isn't bullying a Chairman from a weak Melbourne club on life support or an unloveable club from a non-AFL state, he is taking on a whole club that is quickly becoming the toast of the town who are looking for a fight.

At some point Eddie will realise that his ranting contradictions are going to catch up him by Sydney's media who don't care about his powerful position. The 4 million plus Sydneysiders will show interest and in the end Eddie will realise that his brand in this city is being damaged.

I hope this goes on for a few weeks, but I suspect Eddie will stop the ranting much sooner.