List changes and trade bait

[Jimitron5000]

In my opinion the Swans have four players who are worth a pick one. These are Franklin, Kennedy, Parker and Hanners.

Franklin, Kennedy and Parker are vital to the teams short and medium term success.

Hanners in my opinion is the 4th best rated midfielder behind Parker, Kennedy and K. Jack.

He would be the trade to St Kilda for pick one. Patracca is six years younger and getting pick 1 for Hanners after drafting him at pick 30 in 2008 represents a brilliant return on investment. It will also relieve salary cps pressure.

It's also important in my opinion to get a trade for Bird. We need to back Mitchell and give him every opportunity.

I know Heeney, Mills and Dunkley are coming to reinforce the midfield, but adding one extra gun to that group would have us challenging the top 6 all through Buddy's contract.

This is just my opinion.

Would be reluctant to let Hanneberry go. I mentioned in a thread earlier - not sure which thread - that I think one of the midfield group will be traded, but I am of the opinion it wouldn't be any of those you mentioned and it would be for a later pick in the draft, say somewhere between 6 and 30, which would gives us an opportunity to get hold of one the good young talls that this draft seems to have buckets of.
I also think if Malceski goes, Shaw will stay or vice versa with Biggs to take over the position of whoever leaves.

[Pmcc2911]

Love all the list management/trade talk, wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall of the Swans List management office when they have these discussions?

[mcs]

There is a suggestion we need a small forward of Breust's type. I think we already have one; his name is Harry Cunningham, already probably our most accurate kick. Put him in there with Lance, Tippo and Membrey and give him time to learn the job.

And I would like to see Tommy Walsh for a few games in defence with the firsts; he's apparently done well towards the end of the season and I'd like to see if he's the real thing, especially when we won't have Alex J available, whom we already know is the real thing.

Finally, let's take a leaf out of Hawthorn's book and work them hard on accuracy by foot - preferably both feet, but at least one. It would save a lot of grief.

We certainly need a forward like that in my book - I don't think Cunningham is the answer. However, its a question we must solve. A huge forward line like we have been operating just doesn't work in big games often enough when playing high quality opposition teams like the Hawks.

[Flying South]

It wasn't the ruck we got killed in - Pyke and Tippett did enough in there. It was getting first hands on the pill in the clearances where we got absolutely murdered. Ruckman can't solve that problem - its the midfield that was the issue.

except the best ruckmen provide more than just hitouts. They provide a big body at contests and get the opposition midfielder's looking over their shoulder. They tackle and provide effective disposal. And they kick goals when resting forward. We are missing this. If we could combine Pyke and Derickz, we would get Mumford. Missing him. I am confident that Naismith can be that player in years to come. Just have to make do until then.

[mcs]

except the best ruckmen provide more than just hitouts. They provide a big body at contests and get the opposition midfielder's looking over their shoulder. They tackle and provide effective disposal. And they kick goals when resting forward. We are missing this. If we could combine Pyke and Derickz, we would get Mumford. Missing him. I am confident that Naismith can be that player in years to come. Just have to make do until then.

That's right Flying South - my point being was it wasn't in hitouts that we got smashed on Saturday. As you say, the best ruckman provide more than just hitouts. I too am hopeful about Naismith and hope that he continues to progress - that 1 game against Richmond most certainly isn't a fair reflection of his very decent talent. Time will tell.

[swansrob]

Let's trade our entire list for Hawthorn's entire list.

[Flying South]

We don't need the number one draft pick. The 1st 4 picks are likely to be midfielders and forwards. If we traded into the draft we should be looking at somewhere in the pick 6-12 range where would likely find KPDs like Sam Durdin, Hugh Goddard and Caleb Marchbank, or in the top half of the 2nd round to give us a good crack at Tom McDonald's younger brother Oscar.

Couldn't agree more Ludwig. These are exactly the players we should be looking at. We do not need to target any midfielders other than Heeney in this draft. Combined with Mills and Dunkley next year, Hewett and Perris, we are overstocked with young potential star midfielders.

We have to keep 17 for Heeney. Therefore if we are to get into the draft at 6-12 we will have to trade a player. The only player I would give up to get there would be Jetta. West coast pick 10 would be enticing. Can't see Reid getting this sort of interest.

If Jetta stays, and I wouldn't be unhappy about that, then I think a move to a small forward role would suit him more. Horse has been developing him into more midfield role, but I think it is stiffling his attacking instincts. A small forward role like Walters would have opposition defences worried.

For me, Reid has had a disappointing season. This swing role just doesn't suit. Have been saying it all year, we need to play him as a 3rd tall and hopefully replace Teddy in years to come. He is on big dollars so start earning it or move him on.

Not sure Rohan has the composure as rebounding midfielder/defender. Also doesn't get the ball enough. Only 8 possessions when hawthorn spent most of the game in our defensive half. I would like to see him tried in a forward line of Buddy, Tippett, Membrey, Jetta and Rohan. He is quite a good leading mark and would make a few defenders nervous with his tackling speed.

I am assuming and encouraging Goodes and Shaw to retire. And Malceski is not giving me good vibes he is staying. So I see 3 senior spots opening up.

Membrey comes in for Goodes. I would also like to see Jones in the 22. He brings in a bit of hardness.

Mitchell needs to come into the 22. He is an extractor of the ball and doesn't just look to take the easy option of coming out the back door. Hawthorn were waiting for this and we never changed this up. Glad your finally on board with this Matt.

I expect Heeney and Hewett will also be putting pressure on, so I am not sure where Bird will be in the pecking order.

[mariachi]

We need the guy with the gas mask!

[Ludwig]

The one player that we absolutely cannot lose is Hanners. Besides being an AA and the kind of player that we expect from the Bloods, he is the only player that fills a rather large demographic in our midfield. We have one midfielder falling in the 4 year age gap between Bird and Parker, and Dan is the man. He is also the most likely candidate for our next captain when Macca throws in the towel.

I think Malceski has been fantastic this year and a hero of our 2012 premiership, but I feel the club is prepared to let him go and push ahead into the future a bit quicker. I can live with that. You can't quite replace someone like Mal, but a few others will have to step up and fill the gap. Hopefully Rampe, Rohan and perhaps Biggs or Jones can do that. Macca can always step in to be steadying influence. It might actually be better to get the Malceski/Shaw change out of the way in 2015 before we lose Ted and Reg to retirement.

The other name that keeps popping up in the news is Membrey. He is someone we absolutely must keep, even it means putting the heavy on Goodsey to retire.

[MattW]

I am not as sanguine about letting Mal go, particularly if Shaw does (although there doesn't seem to be any sign of that). Saturday showed that none of the young'uns are yet capable of arresting the tide in a big game. I was looking forward to seeing how Harry and Rampe handled it, and pretty disappointed with Rampe, actually. Having said that, I thought Jakey Lloyd was one of our more composed players before his premature removal.

[mcs]

I worry about Mal going as well, but if he does, then I think we need to move McVeigh into the backline permanently. He isn't a Mal like player, but he does provide composure (when he isn't doing the pointing routine.)

I still can't quite work out why Lloyd was taken off. He at least was having a red hot go, unlike a number of his teammates who looked like they could not be stuffed at all.

- - - Updated - - -

The other name that keeps popping up in the news is Membrey. He is someone we absolutely must keep, even it means putting the heavy on Goodsey to retire.

I'm really hopeful that Membrey can give us that leading target that we don't have inside the 50, which gives us another avenue to goal - much in the way Hawthorn have Gunston in that role. If he is still at the club, he has to be given the opportunity to cement a spot in the forward line. Our forward line is only a little bit of tinkering off to be every bit as dangerous as that of Hawthorn. But to do it, we need to find at least 1, if not 2 more genuine targets to put in there. Whilst I see the merit in rotating mids through there to some point, I think they have to bite the bullet and give Membrey the chance to find a spot up there. In time I think he will make it at AFL level.

[Northern_Swan]

I would be highly surprised if Bird went anywhere considering he signed a contract extension in August.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-04/bird-stays-in-swans-nest

[GordonS]

I worry about Mal going as well, but if he does, then I think we need to move McVeigh into the backline permanently. He isn't a Mal like player, but he does provide composure (when he isn't doing the pointing routine.)

I still can't quite work out why Lloyd was taken off. He at least was having a red hot go, unlike a number of his teammates who looked like they could not be stuffed at all.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm really hopeful that Membrey can give us that leading target that we don't have inside the 50, which gives us another avenue to goal - much in the way Hawthorn have Gunston in that role. If he is still at the club, he has to be given the opportunity to cement a spot in the forward line. Our forward line is only a little bit of tinkering off to be every bit as dangerous as that of Hawthorn. But to do it, we need to find at least 1, if not 2 more genuine targets to put in there. Whilst I see the merit in rotating mids through there to some point, I think they have to bite the bullet and give Membrey the chance to find a spot up there. In time I think he will make it at AFL level.

i agree. membrey is a GUN player and needs to be given the chance to shine. reid has had his career handed to him on a silver platter and despite his obvious talent, has not yet lived up to expectations. now thats 4 years of time, in his 5 years at the club, that he has been given to prove himself. its not fair that a guy like membrey has been starved of opportunities in the forward line while another guy continues to fail there. move reid to the backline next year and give this kid a go, otherwise he'll bugger off and succeed at another club.
is should also mention the goodes (potential) retirement which will likely be the deciding factor for membrey. with goodes playing that other marking forward role, it could be a like-for-like replacement. we all love goodes and he's an ABSOLUTE LEGEND and we'd hate to see him go, but we'd also hate to see another o'keefe year, which, lets face it, is likely to happen.

and on the pick 1 (and other high draft picks) debate, lets pull our heads in. its not the end of the world. hannebery could win a brownlow one day and same goes for kennedy and parker. jack and mcveigh have had quiet years by their lofty standards, but they can definitely lift next year. with heeney (a top 5 pick that we will get for pick 17 remember!!) and mitchell in the wings (and hopefully cemently places in the team at some stage) and hewett, perris, etc to continue to develop, we don't need a high draft pick.

[Flying South]

I don't think we lack much at all. Maybe an extra tall/big-bodied midfielder.

We're an excellent footy side that played an absolute howler on the biggest day of the year. The opposition were also terrific. We haven't turned into a basket case in 48 hours.

I agree. I thought that our midfield was smashed in the clearances and contested possessions. But in the light of the day, I did some analysis of our two midfields. Kennedy, Parker, Hannebery, Jack & McGlynn V's Lewis, Hodge, Mitchell, Sheils, Langford. There are some surprising stats. Clearance differential was -3, Tackles -3, Contested Possessions -2. So you see as a midfield group, based purely on stats, we weren't far off at all. But where we couldn't compete, was uncontested possessions with a differential of -51. In fact as at team were lost the uncontested possession count 300-163. Uncontested possession stats to me usually represent how willing you are to work. A measure of your willingness to run to space to get a possession. A measure of your willingness to run hard to shake your man. A measure of your appetite for two way running. So it is obvious to me, we fell short in our effort. We just didn't work hard enough. Got nothing to do with pressure or lack of ability. We lost this game above the shoulders. They let their team mates down by lack of effort. And that is soft. And that not only hurts us as fans, but I am sure it is hurting the players as well.

So as a playing group, I don't think we are two far away. We were minor premiers, four AA's, two of the top four in Brownlow. And most good judges had us as the best team in the comp. But we fell one game short. There will be some changes due to retirements and transfers. But that is just natural list progression. Players like Mitchell, Membrey and Jones should get there chance. Some young KPD's from the draft will be nice also. But overall, with some soul searching and hard work over the off season and we will be challenging again next year

[MattW]

I worry about Mal going as well, but if he does, then I think we need to move McVeigh into the backline permanently. He isn't a Mal like player, but he does provide composure (when he isn't doing the pointing routine.)

I had the same thought today; whether or not Mal goes, McVeigh should move back next season. He played back in 2012 and it was perhaps his best ever season. This year he's not been as good. I am not sure he's strong or quick enough to be an elite inside mid, and he kind of lost the right to demand it after his GF. We've got plenty of young inside mids to blood in there instead. I'd go as far as to say I'd be surprised if he plays predominantly midfield next year.