2015 academy discussion thread (with some FS thrown in for good measure)

[Mug Punter]

Now it seems Cam McCarthy wants out of the Giants and go home to WA.
Giant wants out: Cam McCarthy requests trade to WA club - AFL.com.au

The 4 northern AFL clubs have such an uphill battle to retain players under the realities of current player movement environment. The AFL should never have changed the academy rules until the problem of players using this go home factor is fixed by having the majority of northern club players coming through their academies. It's the biggest equalisation problem facing the AFL and they are just making harder to get it fixed.

I think the Swans should announce in advance that they will not be matching any bids for Callum Mills because they are sure he will come to them in due course because of the go home factor, but will use their first round pick to draft him, just like it would be under the old system. The other northern clubs should do the same.

The other clubs are just using the northern clubs (Swans excluded) as a training facility for their future stars. Even for the Giants, who have managed the problem fairly well, it must be a constant worry trying to hold on to their best players.

They may have inked a big TV deal, but the long term health of the AFL looks to be in serious trouble.

You think Mills won't be intoxicated by the god like status of AFL players in Melbourne if he goes there?

As much as I hared Eddie for his ranting about the Academy system it was hard to argue about there being some issue long term, as the academies produced fruit, with us getting someone like Heeney and Mills every year for Pick 16-18.

I think there should have been a bigger discount for academy players but I do think the system is quite fair and to be honest it is probably about as good as we were going to get long term and now we have certainty.

The biggie is that the academy system does give us certainty in building a home grown list - the guys we draft at 25 - 60 in the draft (and most of our academy guys will be in that bracket) we will pay very little penalty (if any) but we have them guaranteed. And that's important. Every now and then we might get a first round pick from inter-state but I'd expect 3 out of our four draftees from now on to be NSW boys.

Sure we'll have to pay a fair whack for low first rounders but they will be few and far between.

You are right about this being the biggest issue facing the northern clubs and you just need to look at Qld to see how important this is.

[Ludwig]

You think Mills won't be intoxicated by the god like status of AFL players in Melbourne if he goes there?

As much as I hared Eddie for his ranting about the Academy system it was hard to argue about there being some issue long term, as the academies produced fruit, with us getting someone like Heeney and Mills every year for Pick 16-18.

I think there should have been a bigger discount for academy players but I do think the system is quite fair and to be honest it is probably about as good as we were going to get long term and now we have certainty.

The biggie is that the academy system does give us certainty in building a home grown list - the guys we draft at 25 - 60 in the draft (and most of our academy guys will be in that bracket) we will pay very little penalty (if any) but we have them guaranteed. And that's important. Every now and then we might get a first round pick from inter-state but I'd expect 3 out of our four draftees from now on to be NSW boys.

Sure we'll have to pay a fair whack for low first rounders but they will be few and far between.

You are right about this being the biggest issue facing the northern clubs and you just need to look at Qld to see how important this is.

I do think the system is fair as far as the Swans are concerned, although I didn't like the fact that we were specifically targeted because we had 2 gun academy players in successive years and it was not put into a the context of what was achieved over a longer time frame.

It's been terribly unfair to the other 3 clubs that are struggling to hold on to players. If these clubs fail to become competitive on a regular basis, it will hurt the Swans as well. We've had a lot of success, but let's not forget just how successful Brisbane were and what has become of them now. That could be us 10 years down the road.

The mass exodus of players from the other 3 northern clubs is setting a troubling precedent. It's not healthy when trying to build a long term loyal fan base that will stand by the club even during the hard times.

I actually think Mills is the 3rd best player in this draft and we should match any bid of 3 or lower. A top 2 bid would be vexatious and I don't think it will happen.

But some stand has to be made to stop the one way traffic away from the academy clubs. The AFL should do something about it, but all they've done so far is make it harder for these clubs to retain top draft picks.

The Swans, being the strongest of the 4 northern clubs, should take the lead. The northern clubs have more common causes than differences and need to work together to resolve this issue. It may not seem so important to us now, but it could have an effect some time down the track. Time for some forward thinking.

[Jimitron5000]

But some stand has to be made to stop the one way traffic away from the academy clubs. The AFL should do something about it, but all they've done so far is make it harder for these clubs to retain top draft picks.

The Swans, being the strongest of the 4 northern clubs, should take the lead. The northern clubs have more common causes than differences and need to work together to resolve this issue. It may not seem so important to us now, but it could have an effect some time down the track. Time for some forward thinking.

I was at a footy lunch yesterday and one of the panel members was Peter Schwab, ex Hawthorn player and coach and now has a role at Brisbane overseeing the playing list. Amongst other things he discussed how their academy is a shining light and absolutely essential for the well being of the game in the northern states and the disappointment at having it 'clipped' (which I presume was the introduction of the points system), and the issues the Lions have had retaining top talent.

Based on his comments, I'm sure the Lions would be open to being involved in some sort of northern club working party to help resolve the issues mentioned in Ludwig's post.

[Ajn]

There is a reason for that and it's because he is at best an average talent. If we don't get him it's no great loss.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-20/update-phantom-form-guide

I rate Callum Twomey's opinion from afl.com.au much higher and the cost of dunkley will be worth it from what I saw last year. Both he and Mills have had injury worries and I understand that otherwise he is a top 10 talent. Has the potential and on a side note, I would personally love to see bridges mended with Andrew who was a STAR and we treated very poorly at the end.

[ernie koala]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-2...tom-form-guide

I rate Callum Twomey's opinion from afl.com.au much higher and the cost of dunkley will be worth it from what I saw last year. Both he and Mills have had injury worries and I understand that otherwise he is a top 10 talent. Has the potential and on a side note, I would personally love to see bridges mended with Andrew who was a STAR and we treated very poorly at the end.

I think Andrews beef was more with Roos than the club.

He has stated he just likes the idea of his son being a bit closer to family in Victoria.

But given his likely range in the draft , if he goes into the open draft, he could end up anywhere.

So you would think that is an unlikely scenario, unless he really doesn't want to join the Swans...Which I doubt.

[chalbilto]

I think Andrews beef was more with Roos than the club.

He has stated he just likes the idea of his son being a bit closer to family in Victoria.

But given his likely range in the draft , if he goes into the open draft, he could end up anywhere.

So you would think that is an unlikely scenario, unless he really doesn't want to join the Swans...Which I doubt.

I hope you're right but as long as getting him doesn't costs us dearly with draft points to the detriment of the club.

[Rod_]

Lenny Hays did not return. Nick Fosdike and Jude Bolton were recruited and Lenny went to the Saints. Imagine if he had "come home".... Bitter Sweet!

I would not be holding too much expectation that Mills if he goes elsewhere will want to come back as mentioned above. Crazy big lights shine on you in Melbourne if you are a good football player..

If he is good enough get him now!

[Ludwig]

That was a really disgraceful reporting performance from Damian Barrett and whoever manages the AFL website if it is a bogus story about Cam McCarthy requesting to leave GWS. i don't know what his arrangement is with the website, but he should be sacked. Imagine how we would feel if we check out the AFL website and see a headline like 'Josh Kennedy requests trade back to Hawthorn'.

[Nico]

That was a really disgraceful reporting performance from Damian Barrett and whoever manages the AFL website if it is a bogus story about Cam McCarthy requesting to leave GWS. i don't know what his arrangement is with the website, but he should be sacked. Imagine how we would feel if we check out the AFL website and see a headline like 'Josh Kennedy requests trade back to Hawthorn'.

It is fair to say that this is when Barrett tries to shine as a footy reporter. Seems he makes up player movements at this time of the year. He is rarely on the money. Lightweight when it comes to scoops.

[707]

Barrett was CORRECT! Youse owe him an apology on this one.

GWS denied Barrett's report last night saying McCarthy wants to stay but today GWS told the truth that McCarthy does want to go home to WA but they won't entertain the idea and wuill hold him to his contract. Sounds the same rhetoric as last year - then two daze later Tom Boyd was a Bulldog!

[Mug Punter]

Barrett was CORRECT! Youse owe him an apology on this one.

GWS denied Barrett's report last night saying McCarthy wants to stay but today GWS told the truth that McCarthy does want to go home to WA but they won't entertain the idea and wuill hold him to his contract. Sounds the same rhetoric as last year - then two daze later Tom Boyd was a Bulldog!

No point in GWS keeping a player against his will provided a decent trade can be arranged, see McCarthy as a late first rounder so a straight swap by either club would seem fair.

GWS have a great list management strategy at the moment as they can always get trade value from their deep young list. With Treloar and McCarthy both worth first round picks GWS can again pick up three first round draft picks, Hopper and Kennedy can now be easily afforded and are both rated top 10 and they can get another young gun as well.

[jono2707]

GWS have a great list management strategy at the moment as they can always get trade value from their deep young list. With Treloar and McCarthy both worth first round picks GWS can again pick up three first round draft picks, Hopper and Kennedy can now be easily afforded and are both rated top 10 and they can get another young gun as well.

It's hardly GWS's great list management - more the AFL's....

But does anyone actually care? It's not the sort of list strategy that will result in adoring fans magically appearing at the gate.

[bloodspirit]

No point in GWS keeping a player against his will provided a decent trade can be arranged, see McCarthy as a late first rounder so a straight swap by either club would seem fair.

I think you are undervaluing McCarthy. He was a pick 14 to start off with and has overachieved since, especially in his debut at the end of last year and early this year. Plus he is a KPP and good ones are hard to get. He is contending for GWS' third tall forward spot along with Tomlinson and Stewart. I wouldn't let him go if I were GWS. What are they going to get better than him or that they need more than him? Plus he can't really afford to walk to the open draft given the WA teams' ladder position.

Stewart on the other hand looks more gettable. He would be worth at least a second round pick I would think. That said I am often surprised at how players are valued versus picks. I often think picks are overvalued and players undervalued.

[rb4x]

Academy Nominations

Sydney Swans: Darcy Baron-Hay (North Shore), Lachlan Behagg (Manly Giants), Ryan Hebron (North Shore), Callum Mills (Mosman Swans), Matthew Wilson (Maroubra)

Callum Mills is the obvious standout in our academy nominations. Does anyone think any of the others will get a place on a Swans list. I would have thought that Baron-Hay, Behagg and Hebron were all chances for a spot on the rookie list but I doubt that we would take all three. Don't know much about Wilson.

[Dan]

It has been announced today that Carlton and Brisbane will NOT receive priority picks. Does anyone know how this will affect our drafting, i.e. make it easier or more difficult to get the points to match a bid for Mills?