Match Day Thread Rnd 9 V Carlton.

[Cosmic Wizard]

Fully agree with this - and Robbo. If you have a problem with what Goodes did, especially if you support the Swans and think he brings undue attention to the club, you may wish to reconsider your underlying issues with racial tolerance. I cheered and remain so proud that he is in the team I support. And I love the fact that Cyril has come out in strong support.

Totally wrong!!
You can have a issue with what Goodes did and not be a racist!
Seriously, you really are full of @@@@!
You can support the swans and not what Goodes did.

[mcs]

Sorry but what you are saying in bull@@@@!!
Please don't attack someone when they have a different view from you!
"White Middle Class Ethos, possible Male Ethos"?? How do you know??
I think you went to far with that comment.
As for Adam, how does doing a war dance "...get better conditions and a future for their people."?
If Adam does that dance again, in front of Carlton supporters, there will be a riot!
For the record I like it, but the brawls in the stands between carlton and swanies supporters really show that this was not helpful in anyway.
As for "...preservation and care of the land, not destruction of the planet." didn't the indigenous people introduce fire and dogs to Australia??
The destruction of the megafauna was the work of the indigenous people, end of story!

What brawls Cosmic - did you witness some? I've heard no information about brawls in the crowd as a result of it?

[Melbourne_Blood]

What brawls Cosmic - did you witness some? I've heard no information about brawls in the crowd as a result of it?

Not sure about brawls but apparently the dance was followed by some kind of altercation in the crowd, and someone was subsequently evicted from the stadium and spoken to by police.

[Dosser]

What brawls Cosmic - did you witness some? I've heard no information about brawls in the crowd as a result of it?

Was it one of the celebrity judges?

[RogueSwan]

What brawls Cosmic - did you witness some? I've heard no information about brawls in the crowd as a result of it?

There was a fight between Carlton and Swans fans some time before half time. The AFL officials were apparently all over it and stated it nothing to do with any racist remarks or actions. A Carlton fan was removed from the game. It was mentioned by the commentators.
There is phone footage of it on the interweb somewhere.
Just checked my recording of AFL Game Day and right at the end with Mark Stevens they show footage of an altercation right on the fence, to the left (as you look at it) of the big scoreboard.

[liz]

Sorry but what you are saying in b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t!!
Please don't attack someone when they have a different view from you!
"White Middle Class Ethos, possible Male Ethos"?? How do you know??
I think you went to far with that comment.
As for Adam, how does doing a war dance "...get better conditions and a future for their people."?
If Adam does that dance again, in front of Carlton supporters, there will be a riot!
For the record I like it, but the brawls in the stands between carlton and swanies supporters really show that this was not helpful in anyway.
As for "...preservation and care of the land, not destruction of the planet." didn't the indigenous people introduce fire and dogs to Australia??
The destruction of the megafauna was the work of the indigenous people, end of story!

I'll have a go at addressing some of your questions / observations:

Doing a war dance doesn't directly achieve better conditions for Aboriginal people. It wasn't intended to. It was intended as a celebration of indigenous culture in a round specifically designated by the AFL for that very purpose.

Indirectly, AFL has a broader role to play in achieving better conditions for Aboriginal people. Firstly, high profile indigenous players in the AFL do act as role models for disadvantaged young indigenous children, probably to a far greater extent than in the non-disadvantaged populations for the very reason that these kids need high profile role models more than most. Adam has stated that his dance was a nod to the U16 Boomerang squad who taught it to him. Amongst other things, it was a public acknowledgement to these kids that Adam remembers and valued the time he spent with them. That's a pretty powerful message, I'd have thought.

Australian Football (and quite possibly other football codes) is used in parts of Australia to motivate kids to stay in school. In Western Australia (via the Neesham academies) and in the Northern Territory, participation in football programmes is linked to academic application. Most of us take completing school for granted because our parents did, and their parents did before them. A few rebel, but the majority just accept that going to school is what they'll be doing until age 17 or so. That's not the case in many of the most disadvantaged remote indigenous communities. Their parents didn't complete school so they've not been brought up taking for granted that they will. Education is not the be all and end all to addressing the social and economic issues facing these most disadvantaged communities but it's part of the solution.

As for Carlton fans rioting if they were ever to be faced with someone performing that dance in front of them again, I find that hard to believe. And if they did, it indicates they have a few problems. I don't really see how anyone could have felt intimidated with it on Friday night, coming as an unexpected event. Once they know and understand the context, I can see zero reason for anyone to feel intimidated or threatened. It's a concept that just doesn't compute with me.

Did Aboriginal people really introduce fire to Australia? I would have thought it's a naturally occurring phenomenon. Regardless, my understanding is that fire is critical to the regeneration of the bush and is a natural part of the ecological cycle. Fire only becomes an issue when it threatens the western-style built up communities.

[Ludwig]

So well said, Liz.

You should be AFL CEO. If Gillon McLachlan had a tenth of your understanding of the issues the AFL would be so far ahead of where we are now.

[Auntie.Gerald]

AFL star Adam Goodes targeted by racist vandals who hijack his Wikipedia page | Daily Mail Online

[Go Swannies]

Just to post a rare footy thought, did anyone else notice that we have started directing a lot more low kicks into our forward 50? There were so many bullet passes last weekend I wondered if we have decided that bombing it long isn't working well. Maybe our game plan is evolving or there was always a plan to change tactics as the season goes on? Did anyone else notice?

[Conor_Dillon]

I noticed that as well but I think it might have been at least partly attributable to Carlton's lack of pressure through the middle of the ground. A team like Hawthorn the week before just simply won't allow you that much time or space.

[dimelb]

I noticed that as well but I think it might have been at least partly attributable to Carlton's lack of pressure through the middle of the ground. A team like Hawthorn the week before just simply won't allow you that much time or space.

That's probably true, but it is a skill worth developing. After all, Hawthorn themselves aren't too bad at it.

[Conor_Dillon]

That's probably true, but it is a skill worth developing. After all, Hawthorn themselves aren't too bad at it.

I think that's part of the reason we recruited someone like Nic Newman, we really need our foot skills to improve

[Xie Shan]

I'll have a go at addressing some of your questions / observations:

Doing a war dance doesn't directly achieve better conditions for Aboriginal people. It wasn't intended to. It was intended as a celebration of indigenous culture in a round specifically designated by the AFL for that very purpose.

Indirectly, AFL has a broader role to play in achieving better conditions for Aboriginal people. Firstly, high profile indigenous players in the AFL do act as role models for disadvantaged young indigenous children, probably to a far greater extent than in the non-disadvantaged populations for the very reason that these kids need high profile role models more than most. Adam has stated that his dance was a nod to the U16 Boomerang squad who taught it to him. Amongst other things, it was a public acknowledgement to these kids that Adam remembers and valued the time he spent with them. That's a pretty powerful message, I'd have thought.

Australian Football (and quite possibly other football codes) is used in parts of Australia to motivate kids to stay in school. In Western Australia (via the Neesham academies) and in the Northern Territory, participation in football programmes is linked to academic application. Most of us take completing school for granted because our parents did, and their parents did before them. A few rebel, but the majority just accept that going to school is what they'll be doing until age 17 or so. That's not the case in many of the most disadvantaged remote indigenous communities. Their parents didn't complete school so they've not been brought up taking for granted that they will. Education is not the be all and end all to addressing the social and economic issues facing these most disadvantaged communities but it's part of the solution.

As for Carlton fans rioting if they were ever to be faced with someone performing that dance in front of them again, I find that hard to believe. And if they did, it indicates they have a few problems. I don't really see how anyone could have felt intimidated with it on Friday night, coming as an unexpected event. Once they know and understand the context, I can see zero reason for anyone to feel intimidated or threatened. It's a concept that just doesn't compute with me.

Did Aboriginal people really introduce fire to Australia? I would have thought it's a naturally occurring phenomenon. Regardless, my understanding is that fire is critical to the regeneration of the bush and is a natural part of the ecological cycle. Fire only becomes an issue when it threatens the western-style built up communities.

Extraordinarily good post

[DamY]

Do the white All Blacks (that's confusing) have the option of sitting out the Haka?

And what's with the Blues fans feeling threatened by the dance (not that we all shouldn't feel a bit threatened by a bloke who can dance well)? Did the think Goodes might leap the fence. Fortunately, the AFL has taken action: AFL to ban imaginary spears at games - Titus O'Reily.

No you do it because you ARE an All Black and it is intrinsic to the team, culture and heritage.

They should have brought their imaginary shields with them but maybe it was too big for their carry-on

[Mr Magoo]

I just cant believe we are even discussing what he did. The kiwis do the haka before every game of rugby league and union and no one has ever mentioned it in the context it is being raised. In fact white kiwis participate equally with their indigenous countrymen.

So sad that a simple goal celebration detoriates into quasi factual rants about who has looked after or not the land etc etc etc.

The reality is that the very discussion of what he did shows up the inherent racism in our society. Believe me I wouldnt consider myself a liberal thinker in this area but this whole situation has been much ado about nothing.