Buddy (merged thread)

[KTigers]

Ah yes, Dane.... one of my kids went to the same high school as him. Dane is very smart cookie by all accounts. And you have to love his Johnnie Depp style moustache twirling. Seriously though, anxiety/depression/whatever you want to call it will be as common in elite sport as it is anywhere. Maybe even more so.
There is a lot of pressure on what are essentially young, unformed minds and their attempts to be successful athletes are played out in public. They ask for it for sure, but it's probably hard for a teenager or a twenty something to ever really know what they are getting themselves into.

First, I would like to send my thoughts and best wishes out to Buddy. You are an inspirational, dedicated and exciting player that I love to watch. I'm confident you can recover from this episode and get back on top of this illness and more in control of your life.

Second, I would like to congratulate both Buddy and the Swans for putting this issue out there. Throwing light on mental health issues is so important precisely because they affect so many. It helps us as a club and as a society become more disability confident. People with mental health issues do vital and great work every day and, as Buddy, demonstrates is no more a reason to avoid employing such people than Paddy McCartin's diabetes. Each case must be looked at on its merits and consideration be given to how the disability can be managed. In many cases people can still do a great job and excel in their field despite and in some cases - perhaps even in Buddy's - because of their disability. Mitch Morton was another who suffered from anxiety and yet I think it may well have been one of the things that helped him be so good. Sadly in his case it was so debilitating it was career ending.

Getting a bit more speculative, this casts new light on some of Dane Rampe's funny comments, I think it might have been one of the SwansCast episodes, about whether he would call Buddy a 'free spirit'. The disclosure of epilepsy also suggests a possible explanation for Buddy's car accident early last year when he wasn't drinking or texting etc.

[Ludwig]

Yes, please send a personal message. Though I'm not really sure how the system works? Where do I check to find it.
And I'm actually feeling a bit more level headed than when I posted that message this morning. But I do have three mid semester exams in the next week, (well the Neuroscience one tomorrow is more a quiz than a mid sem and it's a topic that so far is largely already previously acquired knowledge to me) so my replies may not be as expansive as I would like them to be.

Check your inbox. There will be a notification when the message arrives (upper right).

[Mel_C]

I have been very impressed with the way Longmire has spoken the last couple of days. I'm proud to have him as our coach and I'm proud of our club .

I was watching some highlights of Buddy last night and it made me sad thinking that he won't be out there. Hopefully we will see him out there soon.

[Meg]

I agree with you about Longmire. He must feel as if he walked under a ladder on Friday 13th while a black cat ran in front of him (first Parker, then Kieran, then Smith still not fit, and now Buddy). Yet his overwhelming concern is for Buddy's health. He is a very good man.

And I watched the video re the Swans' goal of the year contenders, two of which were Buddy magic, and like you I felt very sad.

[bloodspirit]

Just a reminder of one of the provisions of the Buddy deal. I know we accepted this, but it is just another example of singling out the Swans for specific punitive treatment:

- An explicit acknowledgement that the long-term specific financial commitment over the nine-year agreement will apply to the Sydney Swans FC?s Total Player Payments (TPP) for each of the nine years, regardless of how many years Franklin is available to play for the club.

I'm not sure if this is wishful thinking on my part but I have privately assumed that if Buddy's body gives out on him and he is no longer able to play well or at all due to injury, then we are obligated to keep paying him and obviously it will be included in TPP. However, if he actually resigned/retired and walked away, surely we can't have been expected to cop that and didn't agree to it?! Obviously the Swans know the truth and they did have the book thrown at them at the time we signed him by the AFL and so, if that's what we did agree to, then fair enough, we cop it. However, I can't help thinking that is not the true situation.

[bloodspirit]

Interesting to read your post, internet pal: as I'm currently a mature age student, studying Biomedical Science, and I spent the previous twenty minutes or so before reading your post, writing an email to my favourite lecturer (even if he is a Hawks supporter) explaining why I want to cancel a presentation that I was due to give this afternoon. The reason I gave was the fact that I strongly suspect that I may have actually recently been in one of my rare manic phases and now I have rebounded into something more depressive. I tend to call it sludge mind, where nothing much registers and I have serious doubts about what I'm doing. And disturbingly, why I suspect that I may have been in a rare manic phase, is two main reasons, firstly I've been an exceptionally good mood recently, but hey I did think that was largely due to the fact that there are a large range of people whose company I find very enjoyable. Secondly, and more disturbingly, last night I went to find the documentation for a little bit information that I was basing an interesting part of my presentation on. I couldn't find it, so this morning a got up early and came into uni to access the all the medical journals that I can't access for free with my home computer. Still no sign of it. So there is a reasonable chance that I've actually constructed a narrative on something that wasn't actually there in the first place. Ugggghhh!
Having said all that, I'm generally okay, the half dose SSRIs seem to help, and usually I enjoy life and I'm usually capable of optimism.
As someone who has read a great deal by prominent neuroscientists and the like, I'd be interested to know what works for you.

Thank you both Ludwig and dejavoodoo44 for sharing your stories. Is great to see mental health issues becoming better understood and accepted thanks to people exactly like you taking the risk of sharing your stories. Hearing your stories has given me a wee more insight into what it's like to live with these conditions. The more this happens, the more normal and unremarkable it becomes and the less stigma there is to exacerbate an already problematic experience. May also lead to learning as more ideas and so on are exchanged. Best wishes to you both. It is also nice to think that Buddy's decision to come out with his news is contributing to these positive discussions and society's attitudes changing before our eyes.

[Ludwig]

I'm not sure if this is wishful thinking on my part but I have privately assumed that if Buddy's body gives out on him and he is no longer able to play well or at all due to injury, then we are obligated to keep paying him and obviously it will be included in TPP. However, if he actually resigned/retired and walked away, surely we can't have been expected to cop that and didn't agree to it?! Obviously the Swans know the truth and they did have the book thrown at them at the time we signed him by the AFL and so, if that's what we did agree to, then fair enough, we cop it. However, I can't help thinking that is not the true situation.

This is the way it's been reported. If there is a specific AFL document that we signed we are not likely to see it, so this is all we can go on. It's never been denied. Taken literally, there's no way out of including his salary in the TPP regardless of his playing status.

Thank you both Ludwig and dejavoodoo44 for sharing your stories. Is great to see mental health issues becoming better understood and accepted thanks to people exactly like you taking the risk of sharing your stories. Hearing your stories has given me a wee more insight into what it's like to live with these conditions. The more this happens, the more normal and unremarkable it becomes and the less stigma there is to exacerbate an already problematic experience. May also lead to learning as more ideas and so on are exchanged. Best wishes to you both. It is also nice to think that Buddy's decision to come out with his news is contributing to these positive discussions and society's attitudes changing before our eyes.

There is something that rarely gets discussed about these mood disorders, which is the role that modern life plays in these matters.

I know so many people with depression and anxiety problems (in Australia, I don't know any in Thailand). It's not like we seek each other out. It's just that there are so many. In the normal course of evolution these kinds of problems would have been selected against. (Natural selection is an elimination process. Less adaptive traits are 'weeded out' over time). I now believe that many of these so-called mental illnesses are really not illnesses of the individual, but rather illnesses of the society. The expectations of people to adapt to the environment they are presented with is so strong that they become locked into situations they can't cope with. I have traveled a great deal in developing countries where much of the population live in more traditional ways. You just don't see these western type 'mental illnesses' there.

An interesting thing about Thailand is that middle aged and older people seem relatively free of these mental illnesses, but so many kids have ADHD. I see kids 3 years old who are experts at texting. The older folks have what I would call normal interactions. They spend long times together at meals, in conversation, laughing and joking around. The kids are all on there iphones, locked in there rooms, exercising their thumbs.

I can say from my own personal experience (somewhat metaphorically): I had the ability to succeed in the modern capitalist world, so that is what I did, but in my heart I preferred to live in the wilderness. In the capitalist world I was successful but sick. Once I went into the wilderness I was cured.

People just want to be happy in life. Happiness comes from the inside. But we are born into a world where we are dictated as to what constitutes happiness, and what we should strive to be in life. And if you can't buy into that formula, well then, you must be sick. We find a label for you that suits a contrived condition and stick it on your head.

[Nico]

This is the way it's been reported. If there is a specific AFL document that we signed we are not likely to see it, so this is all we can go on. It's never been denied. Taken literally, there's no way out of including his salary in the TPP regardless of his playing status.

There is something that rarely gets discussed about these mood disorders, which is the role that modern life plays in these matters.

I know so many people with depression and anxiety problems (in Australia, I don't know any in Thailand). It's not like we seek each other out. It's just that there are so many. In the normal course of evolution these kinds of problems would have been selected against. (Natural selection is an elimination process. Less adaptive traits are 'weeded out' over time). I now believe that many of these so-called mental illnesses are really not illnesses of the individual, but rather illnesses of the society. The expectations of people to adapt to the environment they are presented with is so strong that they become locked into situations they can't cope with. I have traveled a great deal in developing countries where much of the population live in more traditional ways. You just don't see these western type 'mental illnesses' there.

An interesting thing about Thailand is that middle aged and older people seem relatively free of these mental illnesses, but so many kids have ADHD. I see kids 3 years old who are experts at texting. The older folks have what I would call normal interactions. They spend long times together at meals, in conversation, laughing and joking around. The kids are all on there iphones, locked in there rooms, exercising their thumbs.

I can say from my own personal experience (somewhat metaphorically): I had the ability to succeed in the modern capitalist world, so that is what I did, but in my heart I preferred to live in the wilderness. In the capitalist world I was successful but sick. Once I went into the wilderness I was cured.

People just want to be happy in life. Happiness comes from the inside. But we are born into a world where we are dictated as to what constitutes happiness, and what we should strive to be in life. And if you can't buy into that formula, well then, you must be sick. We find a label for you that suits a contrived condition and stick it on your head.

I have a Chinese friend in Melbourne who asked me recently;"John, why is there so much depression and anxiety in Australia. You don't see it in China". Her thoughts are that there is no expectations on Chinese at young ages, but wonders if it will change in the next generations. I answered as you have, but I wonder if it is even genetic. I know a Thai family from a village near Korat (sort of central Thailand) and there appears no pressure on kids at a young age. As adults Thais embrace all the modern technologies like us. Thais just seem to take things in their stride and move on and cope.

[Ludwig]

I have a Chinese friend in Melbourne who asked me recently;"John, why is there so much depression and anxiety in Australia. You don't see it in China". Her thoughts are that there is no expectations on Chinese at young ages, but wonders if it will change in the next generations. I answered as you have, but I wonder if it is even genetic. I know a Thai family from a village near Korat (sort of central Thailand) and there appears no pressure on kids at a young age. As adults Thais embrace all the modern technologies like us. Thais just seem to take things in their stride and move on and cope.

Before moving to Thailand in 2011, I often came here cycle-touring around the country. There's been a remarkable change in a very short period of time. It probably hasn't reached the rural areas to the same extent as the cities. The new young Thai family has both parents working, sometimes more than one job, so they can afford a new western style house and nice car. The children are left with the grandparents. These are the kids with modern day 'illnesses'. The kids are allowed to do what they want for the most part. Like in most traditional societies the children aren't disciplined. They didn't need to be. They just went out and played in the mud with the other kids. They still aren't disciplined. But now they're addicted to these electronic gadgets and there's no real life play going on. Small wonder these kids are dysfunctional.

[barry]

The youth of today is not disfunctional. Electronics have more benefit than harm.

[Ludwig]

The youth of today is not disfunctional. Electronics have more benefit than harm.

I said they were dysfunctional. I'm certainly not against electronics, it's just the kind of reality that children are exposed to in the most formative time of their lives. There's plenty of time in life to play computer games, but there are some social skills that are hard to learn after passing a certain age. It's difficult to measure the effect of the virtual realty world that children immerse themselves in these days, but perhaps the explosive growth in the number of children being treated for mental illness could be some indication of where it's heading.

I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children

[barry]

Our parents said the same about us. Tv was the evil electronic s of the day.

[Ludwig]

Our parents said the same about us. Tv was the evil electronic s of the day.

You just proved my point.

[bloodspirit]

John Longmire is reported as saying today that Buddy is out for the season: http://www.sportsfan.com.au/buddy-fr...7/default.aspx.

[stevoswan]

Our parents said the same about us. Tv was the evil electronic s of the day.

You just proved my point.

Exactly right, Ludwig. It's not as if the world is improving, is it? But the progress of technology, the instant acceptance/reliance on it and the consequences of it, good or bad, is impossible to stop.....unfortunately.