2016 trading and drafting (merged thread)

[liz]

Reg is listed as a FA next year didn't he sign a three year contract?

2017 free agents: Fyfe, Dusty head big names - AFL.com.au

Yeah, looks like they've got that one wrong. According to the report below, he signed for a further three years towards the end of 2015, which, if I take out my pocket calculator, indicates he's currently contracted until the end of 2018.

Reg re-signs - sydneyswans.com.au

[ScottH]

I hope Newman is as good as everyone thinks.
I can remember writing on here that we gave up two draft picks for Tommy Walsh who I thought was an average VFL player and a lot of people raved about him, Newman was also no superstar in the VFL so I hope he has improved.

The mail I got from an insider on GF night was that Newman will probably be the next player in line to make his debut next season.

[Mug Punter]

I really worry about drafting West Australians with the go home factor to consider. I only recall us losing Jetta, but the McCarthy incident is scary and this year you've got Hamling and Brad Hill going to Freo and Marcus Adams asking to go home. I'm not surprised about SPS and can see him sliding to WCE's first round pick, which would be a real steal.

I know some people feel sorry for players wanting to go home, like Cam McCarthy, but it's the biggest factor working against draft equalisation. It emphasizes why we need the academies to offset this dominance of the draft pool from outside NSW and Qld. The player interviews are probably the biggest part of the draft selection process if you're interested in an out of state player. I hope the other West Australians are happy to move state, because there are some real good ones this year (as there are most years).

The AFL should have stepped in a forced Freo to pay GWS fair compensation for McCarthy. They seem happy enough to fix trades when it suits them to do so.

The AFL should make a statement about forcing fair compensation for go home players so that clubs can feel confident in drafting out of state players, It's important for the integrity of the draft. Where is Eddie McGuire when you need him to step up for draft integrity?

I wouldn't say I feel sorry for players wanting to go home, I just think we show a lack of understanding when we more or less call them sooks for wanting to return and play football in their home state.

In this day of increased player power re trades, due to the draft system being an illegal restraint of trade and the fact clubs have to pretty much facilitate any reasonable trade, I can't see why we are surprised.

For starters they are closer to their friends and family support network, possibly the only people who see them as a person first and foremost. Obviously the financially benefits of living from home as an 18 or 19 year old are quite important when the football side of things is so all consuming in the early years. And finally, and I think we forget this, for WA and SA kids they are quite often asking to return to clubs they supported as a kid, kind of a dream come true for most of them that adds to the appeal.

As for Cam McCarthy I think that kid probably has some very serious mental health issues and I think GWS dealt with that issue really well. They made his health the priority but at the same time they made it clear that kids couldn't just pull that card.

And finally I think that we need to remember not all WA players want to go home. Hogan and Lobb have both recently re-signed. Having said that I agree very strongly with you that I think clubs will, all other things being equal, be wary of WA boys. For starters the Gropers are so bloody parochial anyway and it is a lot further away.

I do think that the general response to this "issue", if it really is one, is for all clubs to build home grown lists. For Victorian clubs it isn't an issue due to weight of numbers. The WA clubs get it by default more or less and the SA clubs have slightly lower numbers of draftable players but again there usually is a local boy available with their pick. Later, I'll do a quick analysis of the home grown % of these clubs later.

So the challenge is to make this home grown list a reality for the NSW and QLD states as well and that's why they need the help of the academies. It's possibly the only way clubs like Brisbane can get out of their current malaise and I think for all clubs, with COLA gone, it is the way forward. I'd say within 10 years all NSW and QLD clubs should have 25-30 home grown players on their list. A big ask I know but ask anyone with a knowledge of how AFL is going in Sydney at the moment at the kids and they'll tell you it is about to produce some really good young kids. And who knows what sort of players the GPS and CAS school comps will generate.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Newman and Marsh are on the knife edge

what i mean by that is that they both can fill in from time to time like Nanny did for us

But they have some serious talent ahead of them and Mills moving into the backline put them a step back

Swampy can hold down a player better

Newman is great loose in attack

opposite strengths for me so completely different reasons why they would be picked depending on injuries to key players in Snrs

[crackedactor]

best

The mail I got from an insider on GF night was that Newman will probably be the next player in line to make his debut next season.

Personally speaking I thought he was very impressive in his BOG on GF day. Not so much just the 35 disposals, more that quality of disposals.

[Ludwig]

In this day of increased player power re trades, due to the draft system being an illegal restraint of trade and the fact clubs have to pretty much facilitate any reasonable trade, I can't see why we are surprised.

However tenuous the CBA may be, players do agree to play for the club that drafts them or if they are contracted to that club, so it's reasonable for club to expect a drafted player to stand by their word. It's unfair to the club, the other players on that club (and their aspirations for success) and the fans, for players to dishonour their contracts. There are other options for people looking for jobs near home and family. Being a player in an national sports competition is not one of them. If you're afraid of water, maybe you shouldn't be a fisherman.

Newman and Marsh are on the knife edge

what i mean by that is that they both can fill in from time to time like Nanny did for us

But they have some serious talent ahead of them and Mills moving into the backline put them a step back

Swampy can hold down a player better

Newman is great loose in attack

opposite strengths for me so completely different reasons why they would be picked depending on injuries to key players in Snrs

We haven't seen Newman at AFL level yet, so it's hard to compare him to Marsh, except to say that Newman has always looked more of an AFL player to me than Marsh. He just reads the play better. It's only a projection, but I expect Newman to hold down a spot in our defence next year, while I think Marsh will remain a player on the margins and will not last that much longer at the Swans.

Marsh may still be able to make a career at another club. I would prefer to keep Laidler as a long term depth player. He knows he won't get a contract anywhere else and he does a good job when called upon to play.

[Mug Punter]

Re home grown lists, this is the current situation before any de-listings

* West Coast - 18/37 or 49%
* Freo - 16/35 or 46%
* Port - 13/35 or 37%
* Swans - 11/33 or 33%
* Crows - 11/36 or 31%

I was surprised by how low the local content was in SA and the main thing that shone through when looking at these lists is what an absolute production line the TAC Cup is for AFL footballers. Something for us Vic Bashers (of which I am one) to consider. Also, WA clubs seem quite keen to draft SA boys too.

Of course I fully expect our local content to fall to 11/38 with a Hiscox delist and Jake Brown drafting but it does show we are not that far behind but I do still think a 50% local list should be the aim of all non-Victorian clubs.

[Auntie.Gerald]

ludwig i was hoping u would say that re marshy and he reads this thread

common Swampy time to step up !!!!

i believe in u and playing the nick smith lock down role

[Mug Punter]

However tenuous the CBA may be, players do agree to play for the club that drafts them or if they are contracted to that club, so it's reasonable for club to expect a drafted player to stand by their word. It's unfair to the club, the other players on that club (and their aspirations for success) and the fans, for players to dishonour their contracts. There are other options for people looking for jobs near home and family. Being a player in an national sports competition is not one of them. If you're afraid of water, maybe you shouldn't be a fisherman.

The only thing I agree about this statement is that players should honour any contract that they have in front of them and honour that deal. I think playing the homesick card whilst under contract (e.g. Gibbs) unless under the most severe circumstances (McCarthy perhaps) is not fair.

Once the player has honoured their initial contract from the draft, or subsequent contract they sign, they should be able to play where they want. And the current gentleman's agreement between the clubs ensures that because the whole shebang is an unfair, illegal restraint of trade under law as per the very clear precedent in the Terry Hill v NSWRL case. Then again I guess we all know more about what is fair on here than a Federal Court judge...

Your employer doesn't own you like a highly paid indentured servant and the players aren't the property of their employer's (the AFL clubs) either. But the law of contract should be respected and at the moment I feel it is not and it's why I was so glad to see Carlton stand their ground with Gibbs

[Ludwig]

Mug, you're absolutely right about the law and I don't have any argument about that. And I know the CBA just keeps this whole thing together while hanging by a thread. But it's a thread worth keeping, because we will all lose a lot if the league just becomes a free for all. The integrity of the draft is important to the non traditional AFL clubs and it's not good for the competition to see what has happened to Brisbane and GC, although part of it was their own doing. It's good to see so many academy kids coming through, even if it's not us that's getting a big name this year. Eventually maybe things will even out.

Right now, as we enter the draft, it would be nice to know that if we drafted a West Australian kid, that the thing paramount in his mind was not bailing out after 2 years and asking to be traded back home. How would we supporters feel if that happened? I also don't like to see some players effectively off the table because of the threat of going home, as is rumoured about SPS and what seems to have been the case with Chad Wingard.

[Mug Punter]

Mug, you're absolutely right about the law and I don't have any argument about that. And I know the CBA just keeps this whole thing together while hanging by a thread. But it's a thread worth keeping, because we will all lose a lot if the league just becomes a free for all. The integrity of the draft is important to the non traditional AFL clubs and it's not good for the competition to see what has happened to Brisbane and GC, although part of it was their own doing. It's good to see so many academy kids coming through, even if it's not us that's getting a big name this year. Eventually maybe things will even out.

Right now, as we enter the draft, it would be nice to know that if we drafted a West Australian kid, that the thing paramount in his mind was not bailing out after 2 years and asking to be traded back home. How would we supporters feel if that happened? I also don't like to see some players effectively off the table because of the threat of going home, as is rumoured about SPS and what seems to have been the case with Chad Wingard.

You're right, the CBA is a balancing act, hopefully the "interests of the game" are paramount. And I totally agree that we need the CBA but to an extent I think the salary cap alone is the mechanism for equalisation, just have a look at the even spread across the NRL clubs, it's historically a much more even spread. To an extent I think that the current system, especially with the advent of free agency, just entrenches the strong clubs. In the NRL the clubs just make it happen.

And you're definitely right about the WA players being drafted and being reticent to do so, I just I think it is natural that many kids will gravitate back to their home state. And I actually think it is good clubs getting home grown lists, I just hope our academy system gets the support it needs so the Swans can have a chance at building their own home grown list. And then we may get kids wanting to come back to Sydney to play for their childhood club.

I guess it is different for each kid. As a generalisation I do think indigenous kids tend to suffer from homesickness keenly whereas some would be keen to fly the coup and start a new adventure. One thing for sure though, if the Swans want Logue, the interview is critical, plus the family visits and background checking. They need to try and gauge how prepared he is to more interstate and adjust their strategy accordingly. And I guess then they need to try and get at least five years out of him so if he does decide to go home that we get a decent trade

[The Big Cat]

I remember Gibbs kicking six one day playing in the back pocket. He was a wonderful player and played in two premierships for Glenelg.

Might have happened in the minor leagues but not in the big time with defensive forwards and team defences etc.

[Industrial Fan]

Mug the clear difference with nrl and AFL is the players sign with the afl regardless of who they play for.

Culturally it's different too with the draft an accepted part of the landscape.

Can you explain how there is a restraint of trade within the draft system?

[Mug Punter]

Mug the clear difference with nrl and AFL is the players sign with the afl regardless of who they play for.

Culturally it's different too with the draft an accepted part of the landscape.

Can you explain how there is a restraint of trade within the draft system?

Yeah IF, it's a difference in that the AFL have a restraint of trade in place over their players.

The cultural difference is largely that in the AFL environment the players, via the AFLPA, the AFL and the Clubs have a Gentleman's agreement in place that the Draft won't be challenged whereas in the NRL it was challenged.

I'm not technically a lawyer but basically a restraint of trade is an unreasonable restriction on someone's ability to earn their livelihood. In the AFL case it is primarily location but there are some (like that dickhead John Elliot when Carlton were busted for cap offences) who also claim the salary cap is a restraint but I disagree and believe that is more of an industrial award that sets pay scales and that the cap would sustain a challenge.

Imagine you go to Uni and become a lawyer and when you finish you go into the "Lawyer's Draft" where all the forms look at your test results and interviews, they see how you go in mock cases. You get told by the Law Society which law firm you will work for and where. You then must work for that firm for 2-3 years if you ant to practice law. Then, once you have done this 2-3 years you can only go and work for another law firm if your current firm and the other firm reach an agreement. The Law Society justify this arrangement because they want all law forms to have equal talent.

A somewhat left field and ridiculous analogy I know but just because they are sportsmen does not mean they don't have rights. The key I think is whether it is reasonable within the competing interests of the players and the wider interests of the AFL.

Have a look at the following links if you feel inclined, there's some feeling that it may survive a challenge as the key word is reasonable. I suspect that the concessions to free agency may have (just) made the current system able to sustain a challenge.

Nevertheless I think that the Swans certainly could have won an unreasonable restraint of trade re the trade ban had it not been overturned and I believe we had lawyers lining up to do that case pro bono as it would have been open and shut. Whether the academy system being dismantled would qualify under restraint of trade I don't know. Whether the current system is strictly legal or not there's no way the AFL would tighten restrictions on player movement going forward

410 Gone

The AFL and restraint of trade | The Roar

The AFL and Restraint of Trade ? Footy Industry

[RogueSwan]

... the whole shebang is an unfair, ...

You could just stop there. The AFL is unfair. We have a fixture not a draw. Melbourne teams don't have to travel every second week. The draft has been "manipulated" to give the Suns and GWS a big boost, the Grand Final is often not a neutral venue and on an on ....