The Final Quarter / The Australian Dream (AG documentaries) and related discussion

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  • liz
    Veteran
    Site Admin
    • Jan 2003
    • 16765

    I find the vagueness of the timing of the FTA showing a bit frustrating. I'd prefer to watch the film in the privacy of my loungeroom because I suspect I will get very emotional watching it. And I have something else I should be focussing on between now and the last of the SFF screenings. But on the other hand, I want to see it. If I knew I only had to wait a few weeks for the TV screening I'd hold out for that, but if it's not going to be until close to the end of the year I might buy a ticket for the EQ screening next weekend.

    Comment

    • barry
      Veterans List
      • Jan 2003
      • 8499

      Originally posted by AnnieH
      Really? Have you EVER been called a w.o.g.e? Have you ever called anyone a w.o.g.e? Have you ever been told to go back to where you come from? (I was born in Penrith - not a long drive for me.)
      Unless you've been racially vilified, you have no experience with which to draw your opinion.
      Undertone of what?? If you knew me, you wouldn't say that. I'm probably the biggest supporter of closing the gap this place has.
      If you haven't noticed, I tend to call a spade, a spade. Not ONE indigenous player, other than Lewis Jetta, stood up and said ANYTHING about the racial vilification of Adam Goodes. Not one.
      This is very disappointing. I'm sure if someone started booing Majak Daw, because he's black and Sudanese (which, no one has done, by the way), I'm pretty SURE that Aliir and others will make some noise about it. This is my point.
      As I've said a million times... booing is OK in this game - sometimes, it's a dead-set requirement.
      Adam's booing was racially motivated.
      He dared to step outside of the "box" that society has put our Aboriginal people in to, and the people who like to keep them there, didn't like it.
      This is the reaction you get when you call out (rightly or wrongly) racism in Australia.

      Comment

      • AnnieH
        RWOs Black Sheep
        • Aug 2006
        • 11332

        Originally posted by barry
        This is the reaction you get when you call out (rightly or wrongly) racism in Australia.
        WTF???
        It's obvious YOU'VE never been racially vilified. I can pretty much guarantee you have racially vilified people. You "seem" that type of person.
        Racism stops with me.
        IF you don't like my reaction to your insinuations, don't engage.
        Wild speculation, unsubstantiated rumours, silly jokes and opposition delight in another's failures is what makes an internet forum fun.
        Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones who let in the light.

        Comment

        • goswannies
          Senior Player
          • Sep 2007
          • 3049

          Originally posted by barry
          This is the reaction you get when you call out (rightly or wrongly) racism in Australia.
          Barry, sorry, please stop being provocative. I do know AnnieH personally. She is not racist and to repetitively suggest or imply that she might have racist inclinations will only eventually annoy her (and others). It’s an offensive accusation, particularly if you are not that way inclined. Sorry

          Comment

          • Ruck'n'Roll
            Ego alta, ergo ictus
            • Nov 2003
            • 3990

            Originally posted by AnnieH
            Unless you've been racially vilified, you have no experience with which to draw your opinion.
            True enough Annie, but being vilified for your sexual orientation (just an example, there are plenty of other rationalizations employed by bullies) can give you an insight into the experience.

            Comment

            • AnnieH
              RWOs Black Sheep
              • Aug 2006
              • 11332

              Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
              True enough Annie, but being vilified for your sexual orientation (just an example, there are plenty of other rationalizations employed by bullies) can give you an insight into the experience.
              I seriously doubt Barry has been vilified for his sexual orientation.
              ANY form of vilification is vilification.
              It's 2019... I like to think that humans have evolved further than like it was in 1919.
              It comes down to basic respect for other humans. We ALL bleed the same red blood. We ALL put our pants on one leg at a time.
              Wild speculation, unsubstantiated rumours, silly jokes and opposition delight in another's failures is what makes an internet forum fun.
              Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones who let in the light.

              Comment

              • Bloods05
                Senior Player
                • Oct 2008
                • 1641

                Originally posted by barry
                This is the reaction you get when you call out (rightly or wrongly) racism in Australia.
                You don't "call out" racism wrongly. You make a mistake. Then you acknowledge that you have done so, and apologise.

                Comment

                • KTigers
                  Senior Player
                  • Apr 2012
                  • 2499

                  I don't do as many posts on RWO as some people, but I do enough, and I don't think anyone who posts here regularly is a bigot.
                  Sure, every now and again someone writes something that could be vaguely construed that way, but I think that is them not explaining
                  themselves very well (which we're all guilty of from time to time).

                  Comment

                  • barry
                    Veterans List
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 8499

                    This faux-outrage at a suggestion of racism sounds familiar.

                    FWIW, I dont think Annie is racist. I doubt the young collingwood girl is really racist either.
                    Doesnt mean what they say cant be construed as racist. In the comment in question Annie singled out a group of people based purely on race for their failure to act.
                    Are all Croations to blame for not acting earlier against Ivan Milat ?

                    Comment

                    • stevoswan
                      Veterans List
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 8555

                      Originally posted by barry
                      Are all Croations to blame for not acting earlier against Ivan Milat ?
                      Yes, if they knew he was killing backpackers....why, do you really think they did? Gee Barry, if you are going to use an analogy to back up your view, then at least make it a realistic one....

                      Comment

                      • Melbourne_Blood
                        Senior Player
                        • May 2010
                        • 3312

                        I think it’s definitely sad Goodes didn’t get more support from other indigenous players during that period. But let’s not judge them too harshly. If you are an indigenous Australian then maybe you can comment and have an opinion on that that is relevant. But if you aren’t , then you probably don’t ,and should be far less judgemental. Imagine seeing arguably the most decorated aboriginal player ( and Australian of the year) copping what Goodesy copped ! Geez you’d have to have some seriously immense courage to stick your neck out at that time! To try and put yourself in that position and say that you 100% would stand up is again irrelevant, unless you come from that background and know why it is like to be an indigenous Australian ( in a country that has a pretty poor record of its treatment of its first people). Pretty harsh to label it a disgrace I think.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                        Comment

                        • stevoswan
                          Veterans List
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 8555

                          Originally posted by Melbourne_Blood
                          I think it’s definitely sad Goodes didn’t get more support from other indigenous players during that period. But let’s not judge them too harshly. If you are an indigenous Australian then maybe you can comment and have an opinion on that that is relevant. But if you aren’t , then you probably don’t ,and should be far less judgemental. Imagine seeing arguably the most decorated aboriginal player ( and Australian of the year) copping what Goodesy copped ! Geez you’d have to have some seriously immense courage to stick your neck out at that time! To try and put yourself in that position and say that you 100% would stand up is again irrelevant, unless you come from that background and know why it is like to be an indigenous Australian ( in a country that has a pretty poor record of its treatment of its first people). Pretty harsh to label it a disgrace I think.
                          I agree that 'disgrace' is a bit harsh but as I said days ago, they still have to live with their actions or non actions in this case and a few indigenous players have already come out and said they should have done more at the time. Betts and Burgoyne in particular, after viewing the 'Final Quarter' doco actually cried and declared they felt ashamed of themselves for not doing more to help their 'brother' when he needed them most.....so 'shameful' may be a better description and that's not too far behind 'disgrace' actually.

                          It definitely felt 'wrong'....the way other indigenous players barring Lewis Jetta, stayed silent for so long. Club loyalty can have a powerful influence on a footballer I guess but on reflection, it's not always satisfying to one's pride as a human being.

                          Comment

                          • Melbourne_Blood
                            Senior Player
                            • May 2010
                            • 3312

                            Originally posted by stevoswan
                            I agree that 'disgrace' is a bit harsh but as I said days ago, they still have to live with their actions or non actions in this case and a few indigenous players have already come out and said they should have done more at the time. Betts and Burgoyne in particular, after viewing the 'Final Quarter' doco actually cried and declared they felt ashamed of themselves for not doing more to help their 'brother' when he needed them most.....so 'shameful' may be a better description and that's not too far behind 'disgrace' actually.

                            It definitely felt 'wrong'....the way other indigenous players barring Lewis Jetta, stayed silent for so long. Club loyalty can be a powerful influence I guess but on reflection, not ultimately satisfying to one's pride as a human being.
                            Of course they did with the benefit of hindsight and in the climate we are in now as opposed to then. That they feel ashamed now is one thing, for us to say they SHOULD be ashamed is another. Completely and utterly. Again I don’t feel like any of us non-indigenous people have any right to wade in on that .


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                            Comment

                            • stevoswan
                              Veterans List
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 8555

                              Originally posted by Melbourne_Blood
                              Of course they did with the benefit of hindsight and in the climate we are in now as opposed to then. That they feel ashamed now is one thing, for us to say they SHOULD be ashamed is another. Completely and utterly. Again I don’t feel like any of us non-indigenous people have any right to wade in on that .
                              I agree, I don't think they should feel ashamed, that was their words (Betts and Burgoyne).....just that they have to live with their 'non action'.....and of course, it's never too late to right a wrong.

                              Comment

                              • liz
                                Veteran
                                Site Admin
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 16765

                                Originally posted by stevoswan

                                It definitely felt 'wrong'....the way other indigenous players barring Lewis Jetta, stayed silent for so long. Club loyalty can have a powerful influence on a footballer I guess but on reflection, it's not always satisfying to one's pride as a human being.
                                But Barry's point - I believe. And if I'm wrong, Barry, I apologise. It's my point and one made by a few others - is why single out indigenous players for criticism in this regard? You didn't have to be indigenous to recognise what was happening and how ugly it was. Any player - regardless of cultural heritage - could have stood up and said "STOP!" and yet very few did with much conviction.

                                And as Melbourne Blood has pointed out, indigenous players arguably have a defence that the bulk of the rest of the playing group didn't have. Goodes wasn't booed because he was indigenous. He was booed because he was an indigenous man who spoke out against racism. The booing was a howling down of the conversation he was trying to engage the country in. In that context, it's not hard to understand that many indigenous players would have worried about the response they might have received had they too spoken out. Not an excuse, maybe, but more of an excuse than those from the cultural majority have to offer.

                                Comment

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