Finals

[Ludwig]

Solution to AFL inequities problems. It's fair, but of course will never happen:

1. Reduce the number of AFL clubs to 12 by eliminating 6 Melbourne clubs and move the Gold Coast Suns to Tasmania. (It's worth noting that New York City, which dwarfs cities with professional sporting teams like Jacksonville, Florida and Portland Oregan, still only has 2 clubs for each major sport. The imbalance of having so many Melbourne clubs is a blight on the competition. It will be a huge shock to the system, but once it's over, we will have a truly national competition).
2. Increase playing lists of each club to 54 players. About 180 players will lose their jobs, but the quality of the lists will improve and so will the state league competitions which will absorb the overflow.
3. Have a special draft to redistribute the players from the 6 defunct clubs. This redistribution will be a very complex process, too much to go into here.
4. With 12 clubs, there would be 6 games a week in the AFL competition for 22 weeks, each club playing each other club twice, once at home and once away (this inequity solved).
5. Have a 12 club reserves competition which will also be televised. Since the quality of the players for each club's reserves side will be improved, this should be a high quality competition. There is likely to be a lot more movement between senior and reserves sides from week to week.
6. The Grand Final can continue to be held at the MCG since this will only be the home ground of 1 of the 12 sides in the AFL, the other Melbourne club plays at Etihad and Geelong stay where they are, so the home ground advantage shouldn't come up as much and there will be a far greater percentage of non-Victorian sides facing off in the GF.

[barry]

I'd we make the 6 Victorian side who remain in the comp the etihad tenants plus Geelong, then we can leave the MCG free for only finals like Wembley.

[Blood Fever]

Solution to AFL inequities problems. It's fair, but of course will never happen:

1. Reduce the number of AFL clubs to 12 by eliminating 6 Melbourne clubs and move the Gold Coast Suns to Tasmania. (It's worth noting that New York City, which dwarfs cities with professional sporting teams like Jacksonville, Florida and Portland Oregan, still only has 2 clubs for each major sport. The imbalance of having so many Melbourne clubs is a blight on the competition. It will be a huge shock to the system, but once it's over, we will have a truly national competition).
2. Increase playing lists of each club to 54 players. About 180 players will lose their jobs, but the quality of the lists will improve and so will the state league competitions which will absorb the overflow.
3. Have a special draft to redistribute the players from the 6 defunct clubs. This redistribution will be a very complex process, too much to go into here.
4. With 12 clubs, there would be 6 games a week in the AFL competition for 22 weeks, each club playing each other club twice, once at home and once away (this inequity solved).
5. Have a 12 club reserves competition which will also be televised. Since the quality of the players for each club's reserves side will be improved, this should be a high quality competition. There is likely to be a lot more movement between senior and reserves sides from week to week.
6. The Grand Final can continue to be held at the MCG since this will only be the home ground of 1 of the 12 sides in the AFL, the other Melbourne club plays at Etihad and Geelong stay where they are, so the home ground advantage shouldn't come up as much and there will be a far greater percentage of non-Victorian sides facing off in the GF.

The Ludwig Manifesto makes too much sense and is too rational for the VAFL to ever digest.

[Nico]

I thought the umpiring was ok. We can cherry pick certain decisions or non decisions but as an impartial observer I thought did a fairly good job. Yes the Betts free missed was a howler, but twice Adelaide players ploughed headlong in to tackles; one was deemed high the other was deemed no prior opportunity. My mate I was watching with who is an umpire (Swans supporter) agreed with me that under the rules they were both "Ball".

[stevoswan]

Solution to AFL inequities problems. It's fair, but of course will never happen:

1. Reduce the number of AFL clubs to 12 by eliminating 6 Melbourne clubs and move the Gold Coast Suns to Tasmania. (It's worth noting that New York City, which dwarfs cities with professional sporting teams like Jacksonville, Florida and Portland Oregan, still only has 2 clubs for each major sport. The imbalance of having so many Melbourne clubs is a blight on the competition. It will be a huge shock to the system, but once it's over, we will have a truly national competition).
2. Increase playing lists of each club to 54 players. About 180 players will lose their jobs, but the quality of the lists will improve and so will the state league competitions which will absorb the overflow.
3. Have a special draft to redistribute the players from the 6 defunct clubs. This redistribution will be a very complex process, too much to go into here.
4. With 12 clubs, there would be 6 games a week in the AFL competition for 22 weeks, each club playing each other club twice, once at home and once away (this inequity solved).
5. Have a 12 club reserves competition which will also be televised. Since the quality of the players for each club's reserves side will be improved, this should be a high quality competition. There is likely to be a lot more movement between senior and reserves sides from week to week.
6. The Grand Final can continue to be held at the MCG since this will only be the home ground of 1 of the 12 sides in the AFL, the other Melbourne club plays at Etihad and Geelong stay where they are, so the home ground advantage shouldn't come up as much and there will be a far greater percentage of non-Victorian sides facing off in the GF.

That would be 'equalisation' in a perfect world.....and it would indeed be an ideal set up. The footy would be fantastic! The competition would be totally fair and credible for all......therefore, as you rightly stated, it will never happen. Integrity does not seem to be part of the league's 'mission statement'.

[crackedactor]

I thought the umpiring was ok. We can cherry pick certain decisions or non decisions but as an impartial observer I thought did a fairly good job. Yes the Betts free missed was a howler, but twice Adelaide players ploughed headlong in to tackles; one was deemed high the other was deemed no prior opportunity. My mate I was watching with who is an umpire (Swans supporter) agreed with me that under the rules they were both "Ball".

Missing the point. They are 60/40 decisions that often get missed. No doubt they happened in the second half, when the game was done and dusted. What irks me is how the so called best umpires in the land misses such a blatant free kick?? Yet people like Brian Taylor shouted out it was a free kick and replays confirmed it. It also happened when the game was in the balance. What a surprise.


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[Industrial Fan]

Except Adelaide were outplayed pretty much all day anyway. Pointless discussing a few calls - Richmond took the crows game away from them and deserved the result vic team or not.

Despite getting pineappled non stop by the umps in 2016 we were still within a kick midway through the 4th.

I didn't realise how angry I was about that game until we lost to the cats this year. I have no issue with being outplayed. The umpiring in 2005/6 was exceptional. In a one point game there is nothing I hang onto (umpiring wise at least- the two misses from Jude, Barry and Jolly going awol hurt) meaning the game was either won or lost by us. I'm ok with being gracious in defeat when it's a fair fight.

Even though the dogs may still have won last year with Buddy injured early I'm clearly not at peace with the game. Kennedy was in beast mode and the team didn't play badly. The sequence when Rampe got called Htb when we were free up the wing which was followed by a rubbish in the back call and dogs goal still makes me angry.

It stinks the same umpires were given the game to adjudicate but aside from that you can't compare the two games.

[Blood Fever]

Except Adelaide were outplayed pretty much all day anyway. Pointless discussing a few calls - Richmond took the crows game away from them and deserved the result vic team or not.

Despite getting pineappled non stop by the umps in 2016 we were still within a kick midway through the 4th.

I didn't realise how angry I was about that game until we lost to the cats this year. I have no issue with being outplayed. The umpiring in 2005/6 was exceptional. In a one point game there is nothing I hang onto (umpiring wise at least- the two misses from Jude, Barry and Jolly going awol hurt) meaning the game was either won or lost by us. I'm ok with being gracious in defeat when it's a fair fight.

Even though the dogs may still have won last year with Buddy injured early I'm clearly not at peace with the game. Kennedy was in beast mode and the team didn't play badly. The sequence when Rampe got called Htb when we were free up the wing which was followed by a rubbish in the back call and dogs goal still makes me angry.

It stinks the same umpires were given the game to adjudicate but aside from that you can't compare the two games.

Adelaide were outmuscled but umps gave soft frees to Tigers earlier in the game. Rance great player but protected species. Buddy's frees have to be blatant before he gets a sniff. Not as bad as Barry Hall's treatment but has similarities.

[Doctor J.]

Except Adelaide were outplayed pretty much all day anyway. Pointless discussing a few calls - Richmond took the crows game away from them and deserved the result vic team or not.

Despite getting pineappled non stop by the umps in 2016 we were still within a kick midway through the 4th.

I didn't realise how angry I was about that game until we lost to the cats this year. I have no issue with being outplayed. The umpiring in 2005/6 was exceptional. In a one point game there is nothing I hang onto (umpiring wise at least- the two misses from Jude, Barry and Jolly going awol hurt) meaning the game was either won or lost by us. I'm ok with being gracious in defeat when it's a fair fight.

Even though the dogs may still have won last year with Buddy injured early I'm clearly not at peace with the game. Kennedy was in beast mode and the team didn't play badly. The sequence when Rampe got called Htb when we were free up the wing which was followed by a rubbish in the back call and dogs goal still makes me angry.

It stinks the same umpires were given the game to adjudicate but aside from that you can't compare the two games.

This could have been written by me.

[Nico]

Missing the point. They are 60/40 decisions that often get missed. No doubt they happened in the second half, when the game was done and dusted. What irks me is how the so called best umpires in the land misses such a blatant free kick?? Yet people like Brian Taylor shouted out it was a free kick and replays confirmed it. It also happened when the game was in the balance. What a surprise.


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Nope, both in the second quarter.

[top40]

Let me declare how delightful I was to witness the Tigers' success this season. Only the Swans victories in 2005 and 2012 surpass them delight.

Equally it disappoints me that I could not enjoy with the rest of the country outside NSW the Grand Final win from the Western Bulldogs last year. Then as now, I felt bitter and pained. I truely felt the umpiring ensured that if the game was close, the Swans were not going to win. The whole atmosphere in Melbourne in the days leading to the 2016 Grand Final pointed to only one outcome.

Is it a coincidence therefore that the last five AFL Grand Finals have seen the local Melbourne team beat the non-Victorian team? And in three instances at least and possibly four, the local Melbourne team were the underdogs, (2014, 2016, 2017, maybe even 2015). And at least twice (in the past two GFs) there was huge sentimental attachment towards the local team.

What impacts on the visiting team is not just poor umpiring as clearly shown last year. It is the fact that there is a whole wave of massive environmental support surrounding the city of Melbourne.

Maybe it's not the time to think about a GF away from the MCG. That would be too radical. However maybe getting away from umpires from the same state as the competing teams might be an idea?



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[Hotpotato]

Good read about Dusty in
The Good Weekend. He's different.

[Blood Fever]

Let me declare how delightful I was to witness the Tigers' success this season. Only the Swans victories in 2005 and 2012 surpass them delight.

Equally it disappoints me that I could not enjoy with the rest of the country outside NSW the Grand Final win from the Western Bulldogs last year. Then as now, I felt bitter and pained. I truely felt the umpiring ensured that if the game was close, the Swans were not going to win. The whole atmosphere in Melbourne in the days leading to the 2016 Grand Final pointed to only one outcome.

Is it a coincidence therefore that the last five AFL Grand Finals have seen the local Melbourne team beat the non-Victorian team? And in three instances at least and possibly four, the local Melbourne team were the underdogs, (2014, 2016, 2017, maybe even 2015). And at least twice (in the past two GFs) there was huge sentimental attachment towards the local team.

What impacts on the visiting team is not just poor umpiring as clearly shown last year. It is the fact that there is a whole wave of massive environmental support surrounding the city of Melbourne.

Maybe it's not the time to think about a GF away from the MCG. That would be too radical. However maybe getting away from umpires from the same state as the competing teams might be an idea?



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Your point about the energy and environment in Melbourne that affects non Vic teams is so spot on. Even the more serious journos in Melbourne just don't get it. Very jingoistic and defensive about VAFL.

[Plugger1300]

Let me declare how delightful I was to witness the Tigers' success this season. Only the Swans victories in 2005 and 2012 surpass them delight.

Equally it disappoints me that I could not enjoy with the rest of the country outside NSW the Grand Final win from the Western Bulldogs last year. Then as now, I felt bitter and pained. I truely felt the umpiring ensured that if the game was close, the Swans were not going to win. The whole atmosphere in Melbourne in the days leading to the 2016 Grand Final pointed to only one outcome.

Is it a coincidence therefore that the last five AFL Grand Finals have seen the local Melbourne team beat the non-Victorian team? And in three instances at least and possibly four, the local Melbourne team were the underdogs, (2014, 2016, 2017, maybe even 2015). And at least twice (in the past two GFs) there was huge sentimental attachment towards the local team.

What impacts on the visiting team is not just poor umpiring as clearly shown last year. It is the fact that there is a whole wave of massive environmental support surrounding the city of Melbourne.

Maybe it's not the time to think about a GF away from the MCG. That would be too radical. However maybe getting away from umpires from the same state as the competing teams might be an idea?



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I personally think this another case of paranoia

Agree that Victorians to which i am one. Can get behind fellow Victoria teams however it is more likely that we cheer home a team from interstate.I was at a BBQ on the weekend and there was 20 people there all from Victoria all going for the crows.
Last year was an aberration people sided with the bulldogs as they are team that struggles financially/crowds etc
I would've supported them myself against any other team.

Most Victorians will not cheer for Pies/Blues/bombers

[Sandridge]

I personally think this another case of paranoia

Agree that Victorians to which i am one. Can get behind fellow Victoria teams however it is more likely that we cheer home a team from interstate.I was at a BBQ on the weekend and there was 20 people there all from Victoria all going for the crows.
Last year was an aberration people sided with the bulldogs as they are team that struggles financially/crowds etc
I would've supported them myself against any other team.

Most Victorians will not cheer for Pies/Blues/bombers

You make a very good point. Non-Victorian fans presume that the supporters of all Victorian clubs will join forces and barrack for a Victorian club against an interstate club. Yes, that was the case last year for the Bulldogs but it doesn't always happen that way. The hatred between Victorian clubs, e.g Collingwood/Carlton, Collingwood/Essendon, Hawthorn/everybody results from long standing rivalries that pre-date the introduction of non-Victorian clubs to the competition. Hence, most supporters of Melbourne based clubs absolutely loved us knocking over Hawthorn in 2012. Richmond isn't well liked either and the majority of supporters of Melbourne based clubs that I know wanted Adelaide to win the GF. EVERY Melbourne based Swans fan I knew wanted Adelaide to win.

However, top40 and others posters are right about the whole competition being compromised by the fact that Grand Finals are always played at the MCG. It's a blight on our game that higher ranked non-Victorian clubs have to play Grand Finals against lower ranked Victorian teams on that Victorian team's home ground. Victorian clubs seem to think that's just the way it is and is therefore acceptable but whinge about non-Victorian clubs and COLA, academies, etc. Hypocrites.