Is Longmire cooked?

[aardvark]

Clarkson 13 Horse 6.....just sayin'......It's interesting Clarko's worst win loss record is against Chris Scott. Must be the Kennett Curse.

[mcs]

Clarkson 13 Horse 6.....just sayin'......It's interesting Clarko's worst win loss record is against Chris Scott. Must be the Kennett Curse.

AS we have seen so often in those games, we struggle to find an answer when invariably tactics are tweaked along the way. Not saying its necessarily Horse's problem per say, but its been a consistent theme. We manage to dominate passages of play in most of those losses, but often can't be on top at the key end of it.

God I hate Hawthorn though - and to think they are back in the top 4 already

[Matty10]

It would have been a good win last night. We had opportunities and did not take them. Individual players were not clean when it counted at the death.

I don’t blame Longmire.

We do seem to have a bit of problem transitioning out of defence from a kick in. I would love this to be a focus for the coaching team moving forward. We need more options.

[Blood Fever]

It would have been a good win last night. We had opportunities and did not take them. Individual players were not clean when it counted at the death.

I don’t blame Longmire.

We do seem to have a bit of problem transitioning out of defence from a kick in. I would love this to be a focus for the coaching team moving forward. We need more options.

Coaching was very good. We limited Mitchell and Smith and our game plan worked to the extent that we had chances to ice the game. Poor kicking for goal let us down plus our inexperience cost us when we turned the ball over at times in the game when we had the momentum.

[Markwebbos]

It would have been a good win last night. We had opportunities and did not take them. Individual players were not clean when it counted at the death.

I don’t blame Longmire.

We do seem to have a bit of problem transitioning out of defence from a kick in. I would love this to be a focus for the coaching team moving forward. We need more options.

I agree about the kick ins / moving out of defence as a focus in the off-season

[AnnieH]

Clarkson 13 Horse 6.....just sayin'......It's interesting Clarko's worst win loss record is against Chris Scott. Must be the Kennett Curse.

But Longmire didn't play!!

Too much playing the man and not the ball.
Has to stop.

[aardvark]

But Longmire didn't play!!

Too much playing the man and not the ball.
Has to stop.

I think Horse has been and is an excellent coach. Horse doesn't play but he does dictate the way we play. I just feel the group would benefit from a different voice. Personally I'm just a bit over seeing the same game style every year and I feel it's time for a change. I understand most fans think the sun shines out his @%$# and that's fine, It's just my opinion. BUT I am in no way attacking him.

[liz]

I think Horse has been and is an excellent coach. Horse doesn't play but he does dictate the way we play. I just feel the group would benefit from a different voice. Personally I'm just a bit over seeing the same game style every year and I feel it's time for a change. I understand most fans think the sun shines out his @%$# and that's fine, It's just my opinion. BUT I am in no way attacking him.

So what would you like to see change in the club's game style? Specifically.

[Hotpotato]

Bombing it to a congested area rarely works out, only a Heeney speccy or a Sinclair grab (huge improvement has occurred there) leads to possession.
Learn from Buddy when beyond his range (I understand he has a high skillset) : his low flying stab kicks to a player in space are a better option.
Hawks have always done this very well.
We do it well sometimes, other times downfield is in a state of inertia.

[aardvark]

So what would you like to see change in the club's game style? Specifically.

I'd like to see us use zones more and push the defense further up the ground so we are not relying on our defenses ability to absorb multiple attacks so much. I'd also like to see us attack the corridor bringing the ball out of defense. I think we try to stay in games and win the war of attrition rather than win them through attack. We seem to limp into finals quite often and I think the reason for this is our players are worn out/injured from a long season of our combative game style. In the last few years we have recruited quick talented players with good skills and we don't play to their strengths. For an example having to use Heeney as the +1 defensively is a waste of his talent.

[liz]

I'd like to see us use zones more and push the defense further up the ground so we are not relying on our defenses ability to absorb multiple attacks so much. I'd also like to see us attack the corridor bringing the ball out of defense. I think we try to stay in games and win the war of attrition rather than win them through attack. We seem to limp into finals quite often and I think the reason for this is our players are worn out/injured from a long season of our combative game style. In the last few years we have recruited quick talented players with good skills and we don't play to their strengths. For an example having to use Heeney as the +1 defensively is a waste of his talent.

We've only used Heeney as a +1 in defence late in this season and I suggest it is largely due to the toll injuries have taken on our tall stocks. Other clubs have had longer injury lists than we have, but ours has been particularly hard on our tall players, especially defenders. In the Melbourne game, for example, we were without Grundy and lost AJ early. Structurally our defence was also affected by the loss of Smith. We didn't have Reid to send down back late in quarters, as Longmire did last year. Nor did we have Mills, who might have played the loose, marking defender. It's not as if Heeney has been spending large parts of every game in defence.

I agree that defending so deep is not ideal but I don't think it's the plan, more an outcome of our poor midfield performance for much of the year, and the fact that many of our younger midfielders struggle to apply the tackling pressure further up the ground that has been a cornerstone of our game plan for most of Longmire's reign. While the defence has been good at absorbing pressure for many years, it has never had to withstand quite the volume of ball that it has this year.


Taking more risks coming out of defence will result in far more difficult to defend turnovers unless we have highly skilled players who can routinely make that kick into the corridor. I don't think we have them right now.


As for our "combative game style" I don't think it's much different to most other sides. Sure, GWS with their raft of highly skilled kickers (most of whom were high draft picks) can move the ball better. And Essendon do it with speed from half-back. But most other sides rely on pressure around the ball carrier to create turnovers.


This has been our worst season, IMO, in terms of comprehensive wins. It's hard to think of any. We've had good, narrow victories over other quality teams but there's probably not been a single game you could describe as "champagne football". But that's not been the case in past seasons under Longmire. We've had plenty of emphatic wins using "the Longmire approach", including some in finals against very good sides (eg two against Geelong, one against Adelaide). This year's output reflects the mix of young players and of senior players struggling to bring consistency to their games, for whatever reasons.

[barry]

I'd like to see us use zones more and push the defense further up the ground so we are not relying on our defenses ability to absorb multiple attacks so much. I'd also like to see us attack the corridor bringing the ball out of defense. I think we try to stay in games and win the war of attrition rather than win them through attack.

Its a lot easier to defend in your back 50, because the dimensions of the ground are smaller.

Our problem right now, is our ruckman is getting slaughtered by the likes of McEvoy or others like Gawn. Our midfield just doesnt get enough of it.
Our recent good win against the Giants was because they have a worse tap ruckman than we do.

[bloodspirit]

The closest we came to champagne football was probably round 1 when Buddy kicked 8 (from memory).

Don't agree that we have the same old game plan, especially against the Hawks. This was especially evident in the first half on the weekend where we dramatically out-possessed Hawthorn based, in substantial part, on a short kicking game. How is that the same old plan against the Hawks?? I think our game plan is evolving but we still have a healthy emphasis on aiming to win the contest plus excellent team defence.

[AnnieH]

Ronke kicking 7 was, at the very least, a passion-pop performance.

[aardvark]

We've only used Heeney as a +1 in defence late in this season and I suggest it is largely due to the toll injuries have taken on our tall stocks. Other clubs have had longer injury lists than we have, but ours has been particularly hard on our tall players, especially defenders. In the Melbourne game, for example, we were without Grundy and lost AJ early. Structurally our defence was also affected by the loss of Smith. We didn't have Reid to send down back late in quarters, as Longmire did last year. Nor did we have Mills, who might have played the loose, marking defender. It's not as if Heeney has been spending large parts of every game in defence.

I agree that defending so deep is not ideal but I don't think it's the plan, more an outcome of our poor midfield performance for much of the year, and the fact that many of our younger midfielders struggle to apply the tackling pressure further up the ground that has been a cornerstone of our game plan for most of Longmire's reign. While the defence has been good at absorbing pressure for many years, it has never had to withstand quite the volume of ball that it has this year.


Taking more risks coming out of defence will result in far more difficult to defend turnovers unless we have highly skilled players who can routinely make that kick into the corridor. I don't think we have them right now.


As for our "combative game style" I don't think it's much different to most other sides. Sure, GWS with their raft of highly skilled kickers (most of whom were high draft picks) can move the ball better. And Essendon do it with speed from half-back. But most other sides rely on pressure around the ball carrier to create turnovers.


This has been our worst season, IMO, in terms of comprehensive wins. It's hard to think of any. We've had good, narrow victories over other quality teams but there's probably not been a single game you could describe as "champagne football". But that's not been the case in past seasons under Longmire. We've had plenty of emphatic wins using "the Longmire approach", including some in finals against very good sides (eg two against Geelong, one against Adelaide). This year's output reflects the mix of young players and of senior players struggling to bring consistency to their games, for whatever reasons.

I agree with every reason you have given for things happening they way they have. You asked me what I would like to see done differently.
I am hoping next year, with a fit list, the transition from old to new will happen a bit quicker and we will see a more attacking mindset. Having said that we will probably win the next 4.