General footy chat The AFL - a national competition? (split thread)

[barry]

Gill, and the current administration, have no desire to maintain a presence in NSW and QLD. Gill, the weak dog, is only interested in pleasing the loudest voices be they players (free agency) or vic clubs (grand final contract with MCG, and dismantling academies) and TV networks (rule changes).

If Gill remains in power for the next 5 years, the Gold Coast will be wound up. And all those millions will be wasted.
If we bottom out, expect no help from head office and a prolonged Brisbane Lions like 15 year existence from 2003 to 2018 is on the cards.
GWS are in peril too, and without the boost of a "1996-like" grand final birth, will struggle to get critical mass of support.
If GWS fall into a Gold Coast like state, there will be nothing to cheer about from us, because the talk will turn to a Swans GWS merger.

The national competition is under siege from within.

[barry]

Just to add, Mike Fitzpatrick was actually the last commissioner to believe the game should expand outside Victoria.
At the end he became a bit like Malcolm Turnbull in that he had to spend so much energy appeasing the pro-vic forces (trading bans to protect academies, etc) that he became so compromised, his position was no longer tenable.

[stellation]

One thing I think the AFL needs to look at for GWS' benefit is disconnecting the Swans/Giants double headers when there's a Giants home game. There seems to be a dip of kinda-interested folks when there's a double header who take the opportunity to stay at home and catch both games as opposed to heading to the Giants game and miss the Swans one/catch it later.

I can understand why they did it originally to slowly build interest, and I quite enjoyed the early days of viewing the young Giants as a curtain raiser to a Swans game, but it's probably time to avoid it at all costs.

[0918330512]

Gill, and the current administration, have no desire to maintain a presence in NSW and QLD. Gill, the weak dog, is only interested in pleasing the loudest voices be they players (free agency) or vic clubs (grand final contract with MCG, and dismantling academies) and TV networks (rule changes).

If Gill remains in power for the next 5 years, the Gold Coast will be wound up. And all those millions will be wasted.
If we bottom out, expect no help from head office and a prolonged Brisbane Lions like 15 year existence from 2003 to 2018 is on the cards.
GWS are in peril too, and without the boost of a "1996-like" grand final birth, will struggle to get critical mass of support.
If GWS fall into a Gold Coast like state, there will be nothing to cheer about from us, because the talk will turn to a Swans GWS merger.

The national competition is under siege from within.

Pity if GC$ die. Not a pity if GW$ goes the way of the dinosaurs. Rather Fitzroy or even University are resurrected than see GW$ thrive. But that’s just me.

It’s not in us to bottom out. Not the Swans way.

I can’t complain about the TV networks. It’s billion$ the AFL wouldn’t otherwise have.

Also don’t care about the MCG as there is not other suitable ground in the country with sufficient capacity to host the GF IMO.

[Blood Fever]

Pity if GC$ die. Not a pity if GW$ goes the way of the dinosaurs. Rather Fitzroy or even University are resurrected than see GW$ thrive. But that’s just me.

It’s not in us to bottom out. Not the Swans way.

I can’t complain about the TV networks. It’s billion$ the AFL wouldn’t otherwise have.

Also don’t care about the MCG as there is not other suitable ground in the country with sufficient capacity to host the GF IMO.

i

MCG grand final a blight on the integrity of national competition. Should be an asterisk against all Vic based teams who won the flag against a non Vic team that finished higher on the ladder. Hawks 2015, Bulldogs 2016 and Tigers last year fit this category. If somehow Pies beat Tigers and Eagles win, Collingwood will be in this situation with a massive home ground and home city advantage and would win in my opinion. Disgraceful.

[KTigers]

I agree Blood Fever. The AFL's deal last year to keep the GF at the MCG till 2057 was the symbolic nail in the coffin of the
so-called "national competition". The "home of football" argument is just some self-serving Melbourne-centric clap trap,
and that other chestnut about the MCG being the only stadium big enough to host the GF is equally lame.
There are some pretty major sporting events around world held in stadiums where demand for tickets far exceeds the
stadium capacity. The World Cup, the Superbowl, the World Series.... they all seem to have survived some people not
not being able to get a seat, and not being played in the same city every year.
Besides, are no new stadiums going to be built in Australia in the forty years? The population is meant to hit 60 million
by then. You'd think there might be a few new ones built in that time. They managed to knock up the 128,000 capacity
version of ANZ just for a two week event (the Olympics) without a lot of drama as I remember.
Then there is all this bluster about how much money have been sunk into GWS and the Suns to help "grow the
game". There are houses in Sydney that almost cost as much as the investment in these teams. One of them has
three people living in it. The "national competition" is basically just an exercise in tokenism at this point.

[Blood Fever]

I agree Blood Fever. The AFL's deal last year to keep the GF at the MCG till 2057 was the symbolic nail in the coffin of the
so-called "national competition". The "home of football" argument is just some self-serving Melbourne-centric clap trap,
and that other chestnut about the MCG being the only stadium big enough to host the GF is equally lame.
There are some pretty major sporting events around world held in stadiums where demand for tickets far exceeds the
stadium capacity. The World Cup, the Superbowl, the World Series.... they all seem to have survived some people not
not being able to get a seat, and not being played in the same city every year.
Besides, are no new stadiums going to be built in Australia in the forty years? The population is meant to hit 60 million
by then. You'd think there might be a few new ones built in that time. They managed to knock up the 128,000 capacity
version of ANZ just for a two week event (the Olympics) without a lot of drama as I remember.
Then there is all this bluster about how much money have been sunk into GWS and the Suns to help "grow the
game". There are houses in Sydney that almost cost as much as the investment in these teams. One of them has
three people living in it. The "national competition" is basically just an exercise in tokenism at this point.

Living in Melbourne, as I have all my life, if you bring this up you are either met with a smug grin or else you are told to get over it and reminded about the Mecca of football. If Collingwood and Eagles make GF, Melboune media will not mention the injustice at all. Embarrassing and laughable situation.

[barry]

Pity if GC$ die. Not a pity if GW$ goes the way of the dinosaurs. Rather Fitzroy or even University are resurrected than see GW$ thrive. But that’s just me.

Why would you want University back?
Would you rather a VFL?

It’s not in us to bottom out. Not the Swans way.

It will happen eventually. Gill has sabotaged almost all the techniques weve used to stay on top. Rookie list, Academies, Trading bans, COLA.
Under Harley, its looking sooner rather than later.

I can’t complain about the TV networks. It’s billion$ the AFL wouldn’t otherwise have.

Most competitions do not fold over like the AFL do.

Also don’t care about the MCG as there is not other suitable ground in the country with sufficient capacity to host the GF IMO.

All current cities could host a grand final. Certainly a best of 3 series.
The biggest impact (downgrade) of movable grand final would be on MCC members.
The biggest impact (upgrade) of movable grand final would be for fans of teams outside of Melbourne. Thats roughly 20 million people at last count.

But having a "rare" grand final at the MCG would make it bigger than it is now.

[mcs]

Living in Melbourne, as I have all my life, if you bring this up you are either met with a smug grin or else you are told to get over it and reminded about the Mecca of football. If Collingwood and Eagles make GF, Melboune media will not mention the injustice at all. Embarrassing and laughable situation.

But unsuprising - I know the comment is made in jest, but many yearn for the return of the VFL, and see interstate teams as nothing but an unfortunately necessary evil to support their competition in the home of football. As long as some Melbourne team wins it, they are happy chappies...

[barry]

Best of 3 finals series.


Ranking from H&A remains through finals series.

1st week. (all knock out)
1 v 8
2 v 7
3 v 6
4 v 5

2nd week.
4 winners play prelims. highest rank hosts.
highest vs 4th highest
2nd highest v 3rd highest

Grand final 1
At home city of highest qualifier.

Grand final 2
At MCG.

Grand final 3 (if required)
At ground of choice of highest qualifier. Enabling them to sell the game, or play at a smaller venue. Kardinia park, Spotless, etc.

You only get 1 less game than current format if only 2 grand finals required. And it only takes 4 weeks. All games are knockout.
Same number of games if 3 grand finals required (5 weeks).
Lets say Swans are highest finisher (2016). SCG: 60,000, MCG: 100,000, SCG: 60,000 = 220,000 fans to grand finals.

Possible enhancement is game 3 is at venue of lower qualifier if no melbourne clubs involved.

[Bloods05]

Gill, and the current administration, have no desire to maintain a presence in NSW and QLD. Gill, the weak dog, is only interested in pleasing the loudest voices be they players (free agency) or vic clubs (grand final contract with MCG, and dismantling academies) and TV networks (rule changes).

If Gill remains in power for the next 5 years, the Gold Coast will be wound up. And all those millions will be wasted.
If we bottom out, expect no help from head office and a prolonged Brisbane Lions like 15 year existence from 2003 to 2018 is on the cards.
GWS are in peril too, and without the boost of a "1996-like" grand final birth, will struggle to get critical mass of support.
If GWS fall into a Gold Coast like state, there will be nothing to cheer about from us, because the talk will turn to a Swans GWS merger.

The national competition is under siege from within.

Lively debate is all very well, but this is hysterical alarmism.

[barry]

Its not alarmism, especially at the gold coast level.

How can Gold Coast survive?. Under currrent setup, they would have a 5% survival chance in 5 years.
They draft young players, Players stay 5-7 years, then just as they are becoming good, they leave with free agency or threat of free agency.
Therefore, they can never field a finals quality team, as players are still developing. They just get poached by vic clubs.

If they cant play finals, they will never build the support and financial levels to be self sustainable.

The 5% survival chance is only if the AFL intervenes, which means on their own (in the current environment) they are unviable.

Right now, their two captains, and stars (Lynch and May) are likely to be going to 2 prelim finalists next year. This after similar thing happening for past couple of years.

[KTigers]

But unsuprising - I know the comment is made in jest, but many yearn for the return of the VFL, and see interstate teams as nothing but an unfortunately necessary evil to support their competition in the home of football. As long as some Melbourne team wins it, they are happy chappies...

Somehow I can't see the players, coaches & football club administrators yearning for a return to VFL sized paychecks.

[mcs]

Somehow I can't see the players, coaches & football club administrators yearning for a return to VFL sized paychecks.

Of course not

[Bloods05]

Its not alarmism, especially at the gold coast level.

How can Gold Coast survive?. Under currrent setup, they would have a 5% survival chance in 5 years.
They draft young players, Players stay 5-7 years, then just as they are becoming good, they leave with free agency or threat of free agency.
Therefore, they can never field a finals quality team, as players are still developing. They just get poached by vic clubs.

If they cant play finals, they will never build the support and financial levels to be self sustainable.

The 5% survival chance is only if the AFL intervenes, which means on their own (in the current environment) they are unviable.

Right now, their two captains, and stars (Lynch and May) are likely to be going to 2 prelim finalists next year. This after similar thing happening for past couple of years.

Gold Coast just need to get their act together from the top down, like every other failing club has done over the years. And unlike Fitzroy and South Melbourne, they will have the backing of the AFL to do so.