The AFL - a national competition? (split thread)

[stellation]

I sometimes wonder whether I am being punked when I engage in debate on these forums. Either that or I am just conversing with unrelenting ideologues.

I think it's reasonable to say it's not neutral, although I appreciate you weren't really it was and just said it's about as close as you can get to neutral.

Is there another sporting competition anyone can think of that is at the same level of professionalism as the AFL, but maintains this level of inequality for the culmination of its season? In 2017 we saw Adelaide;

• beat their eventual opponent in their one match up in the regular season
• finish the season on top of the ladder
• not lose in the finals (QF/PF) at all to win their way to the big game

yet find themselves having to travel interstate to play their opponent on their opponent's home ground. It was the 4th time Adelaide had played there that year (which is more than other interstate teams had), yet it was the 14th time their opponent had. That is not a fair system, and not a neutral ground at all under those circumstances (and Adelaide earnt, at a minimum, a neutral ground).

Richmond had 14 regular season games at the MCG this year- if we end up with a Richmond vs. West Coast Grand Final then the Tigers will be playing their 31st game at the ground over the past 2 seasons and the Eagles with be playing just their 5th. Richmond is deserving of an advantage this year, but imagine if it was an Adelaide style scenario and the Eagles were the ones deserving of an advantage but that's what the competition locked them in to?

I love tradition in footy, and I enjoy the Grand Final being at the MCG as a general spectacle- but it's not a fair system in a national competition.

[Bloody Hell]

Compare the talk of Lynch joining Richmond, possibly after winning back to back GF's , and that of Tippett joining after the Swans 2012 GF success.

Oranges and Apples.

And then Buddy....! The world was ending.

[Blood Fever]

I think it's reasonable to say it's not neutral, although I appreciate you weren't really it was and just said it's about as close as you can get to neutral.

Is there another sporting competition anyone can think of that is at the same level of professionalism as the AFL, but maintains this level of inequality for the culmination of its season? In 2017 we saw Adelaide;

• beat their eventual opponent in their one match up in the regular season
• finish the season on top of the ladder
• not lose in the finals (QF/PF) at all to win their way to the big game

yet find themselves having to travel interstate to play their opponent on their opponent's home ground. It was the 4th time Adelaide had played there that year (which is more than other interstate teams had), yet it was the 14th time their opponent had. That is not a fair system, and not a neutral ground at all under those circumstances (and Adelaide earnt, at a minimum, a neutral ground).

Richmond had 14 regular season games at the MCG this year- if we end up with a Richmond vs. West Coast Grand Final then the Tigers will be playing their 31st game at the ground over the past 2 seasons and the Eagles with be playing just their 5th. Richmond is deserving of an advantage this year, but imagine if it was an Adelaide style scenario and the Eagles were the ones deserving of an advantage but that's what the competition locked them in to?

I love tradition in footy, and I enjoy the Grand Final being at the MCG as a general spectacle- but it's not a fair system in a national competition.

West Coast finished higher than Hawthorn in 2015. Eagles beat Hawthorn in Perth and then won Prelim v Dockers(I think) two weeks later. Hawthorn won their way into GF and got to play on home ground where they won the flag. Same scenario brewing this year with Eagles and Collingwood. Inarguably farcical and just wrong. Only major comp in world where this occurs. Everywhere else this would be quickly rectified. Here we lock the injustice in for the next 40 years.

[Bloody Hell]

When I'm CEO of the AFL, there will be 2 teams added (Canberra and Tasmania) so we end up with 20 teams.

They will be divided into two leagues of 10, with the 10 victorian teams in one league and the 10 national teams in the other. They will play against each other from their own league (twice) in the H&A season to get to a top four, then you would have the finals series with the 8 top sides playing against each other 1v2, 2v1, 3v4, 4v3 to find the premier in the current knockout format.

This is all a precursor to ten years later when I break the two leagues into the VFL and the AFL so the Victorians can sit in a tight circle within the MCG and liveout the circle jerk that is the state of the current "national" competition. Hopefully becoming a second tier to the true national competition that is devoid of their participation (or let in two Melbourne teams following the model of every other capital).

[Matty10]

The AFL draw is also a flawed way of determining who is the best ranked team. It is what we have, but I don’t see the need to provide special benefits to the team that finishes first (beyond what they already get).

The NFL has a system where the Super Bowl is played in a city that is selected in advance of the season commencing. I like the system, but no team has made the Super Bowl when their home stadium is the selected venue. It could happen that a lower ranked team has a home field advantage, but it hasn’t happened to this point.

My district had a similar system for football grand finals. Teams did sometimes have home field advantage, but often it was just played at a neutral stadium.

[Blood Fever]

The AFL draw is also a flawed way of determining who is the best ranked team. It is what we have, but I don’t see the need to provide special benefits to the team that finishes first (beyond what they already get).

The NFL has a system where the Super Bowl is played in a city that is selected in advance of the season commencing. I like the system, but no team has made the Super Bowl when their home stadium is the selected venue. It could happen that a lower ranked team has a home field advantage, but it hasn’t happened to this point.

My district had a similar system for football grand finals. Teams did sometimes have home field advantage, but often it was just played at a neutral stadium.

Happy with neutral stadium a la NFL system. Meanwhile we are supposed to bite on a @@@@ sandwich for the next 40 years.

[0918330512]

Ok, explain why you'd want University ?

And if you did, how would you establish a team from scratch. Draft picks? Every team give up a player ?

or was it just a throw away line.?

Siiiiiigh I think you miss my point.

I don’t particularly want University. It’s just I really don’t care for GW$. Some people are pro- GW$ because they are another Sydney team. Or because they are “underdogs” (only in that they are a young group who haven’t won a Premiership). I personally don’t see them that way. I see them as a rude bunch of upstarts that regularly disrespect the elder statesmen club that forged their way in a challenging market place. I see a manufactured club that has been gifted too many early picks that they were probably expected to almost guarantee success. I see a club whose success will inevitably be at the expense of MY club.

Some will see this as a good thing for the competition. I personally don’t care too much about the good of the competition. I only care about the success of MY club.

So, you see, it’s not about University. It’s about, I don’t care for GW$.

[barry]

Pity if GC$ die. Not a pity if GW$ goes the way of the dinosaurs. Rather Fitzroy or even University are resurrected ...

Siiiiiigh I think you miss my point.

I don’t particularly want University

Clear as mud.

[0918330512]

Clear as mud.

I hate GW$. Simple as that

[Sandridge]

West Coast finished higher than Hawthorn in 2015. Eagles beat Hawthorn in Perth and then won Prelim v Dockers(I think) two weeks later. Hawthorn won their way into GF and got to play on home ground where they won the flag. Same scenario brewing this year with Eagles and Collingwood. Inarguably farcical and just wrong. Only major comp in world where this occurs. Everywhere else this would be quickly rectified. Here we lock the injustice in for the next 40 years.

Yep. The very real possibility of Collingwood playing in the Grand Final on its home ground against West Coast who finished higher on the ladder is nauseating and especially so when McGuire had the audacity to complain that his precious Pies only had 6 days between their semi final and their prelim.

[U.S. Swan]

Is there any other stadium, outside of Victoria, that comes close to the seating capacity of the MCG?

[stellation]

Yep. The very real possibility of Collingwood playing in the Grand Final on its home ground against West Coast who finished higher on the ladder is nauseating and especially so when McGuire had the audacity to complain that his precious Pies only had 6 days between their semi final and their prelim.

Great example! Collingwood were given the equal most (with Geelong) away games at the MCG at 5 for the year, so played 14 regular season games in total there to West Coast's 2. So the Grand Final would be the 31st time for Collingwood and the 5th time for West Coast to play at that ground over the past 2 years- so mirroring the numbers for 2017, and providing a quick response to use in case anyone ever listens to an example like 2017 and says "Sure, but how often could that happen?".

[0918330512]

Is there any other stadium, outside of Victoria, that comes close to the seating capacity of the MCG?

Depends how you define close. IIRC none would get within 20%

[Meg]

Is there any other stadium, outside of Victoria, that comes close to the seating capacity of the MCG?

No.

MCG 100,000

Optus Perth 60,000
Docklands Melbourne 56,000
Adelaide 54,000
Sydney 48,000
Gabba Brisbane 42,000
Kardinia Park Geelong 36,000
Carrarra Gold Coast 25,000
Sydney Showground 25,000

(sourced from Wikipedia but look right to me)

[U.S. Swan]

Thank for the info...so, as much as I dislike the GF at the MCG every year, it seems they have a compelling argument that it accommodates the most fans attending the game...