2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Jeynez]

I thought the Papley rumours only stem from the fact Carlton are targeting small forwards?

[KSAS]

Heard Longmire asked by Kane Cornes last Saturday whether it's fair the way Swans have access to elite talent (via their academy). You can tell Longmire was annoyed with the question, answering sternly that the club has spent $10m over the last 10 years in producing just 3 players and then rammed home the fact the ever increasing "go home" factor which the non Vics clubs continually face. He added that they're a long way off before the "go home" factor works the other way!

Aliaster Clarkson admitted on AFL360 last night that he'd spoken to Stephen Conigilio but wasn't trying to crow bar him away from GWS. Whateley on SEN this morning rubbished that comment, saying it's obvious clubs are ever increasing trying to entice players and that the AFL should either make it stringent clubs/managers can't contact players outside the designated window or they make it more open.

[barry]

I dont know why the AFL media is obsessed with this designated trade window concept.

If you want a player, you are going to make enquiries well in advance, otherwise you would be left behind.

[barracuda]

Heard Longmire asked by Kane Cornes last Saturday whether it's fair the way Swans have access to elite talent (via their academy). You can tell Longmire was annoyed with the question, answering sternly that the club has spent $10m over the last 10 years in producing just 3 players and then rammed home the fact the ever increasing "go home" factor which the non Vics clubs continually face. He added that they're a long way off before the "go home" factor works the other way!

Aliaster Clarkson admitted on AFL360 last night that he'd spoken to Stephen Conigilio but wasn't trying to crow bar him away from GWS. Whateley on SEN this morning rubbished that comment, saying it's obvious clubs are ever increasing trying to entice players and that the AFL should either make it stringent clubs/managers can't contact players outside the designated window or they make it more open.

Cornes is a muppet and a troll. The Adelaide clubs have been taking advantage of the go home to SA factor for years. However it appears to breed insular organisations that can't compete.

[Captain]

Sure are, one of the most red and white blooded players on our list. Absolutely loves the club. Going to Europe after the B&F with Ronke, Hayward, Florent and McCartin, doesn't seem like something someone wanting out would do. Carlton first pick now at 9 if I'm misreading it!

- - - Updated - - -

Get a Sydney girlfriend!

Tom Mitchell had a trip booked with the boys to Queenstown too. That didn't work out well.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Mathew Lloyd on Footy Classified just suggested that Coniglio, Papley and Jack Martin are better than a 50% chance of landing at Carlton next year. Interesting that he would be so confident on that one.

Lloyd has been wrong many times before, I would not take much notice. The Age said on Friday that Zak Jones has already left the club and looking elsewhere. Is that the truth?

Matthew Lloyd's brother is Brad Lloyd - Head of Football at Carlton
So maybe that particular rumor is a little more substantial
The thought of losing another heirloom Swan is making me very, very unhappy - and no amount of speculation about overpriced guns-for-hire will alleviate that.

[bloodspirit]

Cornes is a muppet and a troll. The Adelaide clubs have been taking advantage of the go home to SA factor for years. However it appears to breed insular organisations that can't compete.

More or less all my knowledge of Kane Cornes come from watching 'The Round So Far' on afl.com.au. Based on this alone I find him impressive and entertaining. He's opinionated but that's what he's there to provide and I haven't felt offended by him expressing his opinions. I prefer watching his editorial than most others. As far as asking Horse about whether the academies are fair, it's a legitimate question, especially if you're from South Australia, and it gives Horse an opportunity to explain exactly why they are fair and needed.

Clearly, we (and the other teams with academies) do get a benefit from our academies that other teams don't get. However (a) there are very good reasons why we deserve and need this benefit that VFL teams don't; (b) the academies are even more beneficial for the game of footy generally than they are for us; (c) we pay a lot of money to get this benefit (although this money is not part of the soft-cap (nor should it be) so not sure how valid a point this is in defence of the academies); and (d) the benefit we get is pretty measured with just the 25% discount and other limitations etc.

My thought is there is no objectively right answer and it's just political and a tug of war with every club fighting for their own best interests and the AFL trying to find appropriate ways to equalise the competition as far as possible in a situation where all measures are likely to be controversial. The most we can say is that there are very valid reasons why we are allowed to have academies, the AFL in general benefits from them, and all clubs voted and agreed to allow them.

[Aprilbr]

All good points there by Blood Spirit. One thing that is conveniently forgotten in all of the debate about Academies and retention allowances is that the AFL as it presently exists in NOT an even playing field. More than 50% of all draftees come from one state, Victoria. The Grand Final is always played at one Victorian stadium. Victorian clubs can negotiate for their players special endorsements and other commercial arrangements for their players that are OUTSIDE of the salary cap. Together, these are key reasons why the traffic for in-demand players is always one way and heading to Victoria; usually one of the big clubs there. Eddie and Co must be loving the current "level playing field".

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[Meg]

Victorian clubs can negotiate for their players special endorsements and other commercial arrangements for their players that are OUTSIDE of the salary cap.
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Well no, they can’t or at least not within the rules. Adelaide Crows and Tippett were heavily penalised for that.

However players can enter into commercial arrangements on their own behalf. And the opportunity to do so is much higher in AFL-obsessed states where AFL players are well known and therefore commercially attractive than is the case in NSW.

[S.S. Bleeder]

More or less all my knowledge of Kane Cornes come from watching 'The Round So Far' on afl.com.au. Based on this alone I find him impressive and entertaining. He's opinionated but that's what he's there to provide and I haven't felt offended by him expressing his opinions. I prefer watching his editorial than most others. As far as asking Horse about whether the academies are fair, it's a legitimate question, especially if you're from South Australia, and it gives Horse an opportunity to explain exactly why they are fair and needed.

Clearly, we (and the other teams with academies) do get a benefit from our academies that other teams don't get. However (a) there are very good reasons why we deserve and need this benefit that VFL teams don't; (b) the academies are even more beneficial for the game of footy generally than they are for us; (c) we pay a lot of money to get this benefit (although this money is not part of the soft-cap (nor should it be) so not sure how valid a point this is in defence of the academies); and (d) the benefit we get is pretty measured with just the 25% discount and other limitations etc.

My thought is there is no objectively right answer and it's just political and a tug of war with every club fighting for their own best interests and the AFL trying to find appropriate ways to equalise the competition as far as possible in a situation where all measures are likely to be controversial. The most we can say is that there are very valid reasons why we are allowed to have academies, the AFL in general benefits from them, and all clubs voted and agreed to allow them.

But do we? I would argue that the northern clubs (other than GWS) no longer get any more benefits than the other clubs. In fact, I would go further to say that we are disadvantaged. We spend over a million per annum on our academy and they spend a fraction of that. Their academies are within traditional AFL regions and therefore have more ready made players.

Our northern academies were intended to compensate us for the lack of homegrown talent but now that all clubs have academies, where is this compensation?

To make to worse, we are severely disadvantaged by the father-son rule. Historically and presently, all our potential father-son recruits are based in AFL states and either don't want to come here or are harder to keep here once they do. This disadvantage will continue until the generation after most of our players are home grown.

I agree with Cornes. He is one of the few who keeps the Victorians accountable.

[Mark26]

Matthew Lloyd's brother is Brad Lloyd - Head of Football at Carlton
So maybe that particular rumor is a little more substantial
The thought of losing another heirloom Swan is making me very, very unhappy - and no amount of speculation about overpriced guns-for-hire will alleviate that.

I'm okay with Papley going ... provided he's a straight swap for Cripps.

Otherwise, Carlton can get stuffed.

[bloodspirit]

I think we do get a benefit from our Academy but I agree it has been further diluted by the arrival on the scene of NGAs. I take your points about the NGAs not spending much money and taking players, some of whom have grown up playing footy. Not especially principled but hence my comment that while there is an AFL aim to have a level playing field , which is practically unachievable to start off with, really it gets corrupted by the self-interest and politics manifested by all clubs scrapping it out after that.

Despite being in a non-traditional state the Swans are far from the most disadvantaged club. I think the Queensland clubs are worse off, and possibly some of the smaller VFL clubs in the more crowded marketplace there. We have a massive supporter base, healthy membership, excellent corporate partners and improving facilities as well as the most productive and best-run academy. It's not all doom and gloom for us despite issues with attracting and retaining interstate players and staff.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I'm okay with Papley going ... provided he's a straight swap for Cripps.

Perhaps that's what the pair of them were doing that day?


paply piggy back.jpg


Not entirely sure how straight it looks though

[KSAS]

Mathew Lloyd on Footy Classified just suggested that Coniglio, Papley and Jack Martin are better than a 50% chance of landing at Carlton next year. Interesting that he would be so confident on that one.

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Just watched last night's FC. Lloyd was comparing Carlton to Richmond of 5 years ago as the sleeping giant and painting them as a destination club when he made the above comment about Papley, Congilio & J Martin. Could hear Caro off camera say "really?" in response. Papley is contracted for another year and not sure if Carlton have the salary cap space to accomodate them all as they'll each demand big coin. It is discerning that Lloyd's brother works at Carlton and this noise won't go away. We should be in a position to at least match Carlton's offer. I'd be gutted if we lose Papely. Thought the rumours were RUBBISH at first but now I'm getting nervous. Same with Zak.

They also mentioned Clarkson is in Sydney to look for "staff". Apparently their has been poaching of assistant & list managers in the AFL over last few years which may need to be looked at. I have feeling Clarkson might be eyeing Stevie J as I heard rumour earlier in the season that the Pies were keen on securing him for next year.

Just goes to show 24 hrs is a long time in football when they mentioned Ross Lyon needs to play hard ball with Brad Hill who is favoured going to St Kilda on a 900k yearly contract.

Damien Barrett said Buddy will play this week as he could've played last week having put in the required training over the last 3 weeks. Lloyd reckons it's a waste of time Buddy playing reckoning he should be rested for next year, rest of the panel vehemently disagreed. Macca is a 50/50 chance according to Barrett.

[Captain]

I hope we keep Papley.

If he did want to leave, what does everyone think he is worth?