2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[AnnieH]

Do you reckon general fan feedback, here and elsewhere plays a part in decisions reached ?

I mean has there ever been a time when we can post our opinions so publicly ?

Someone from the hierarchy must read them and go Shikes , the fans aren’t happy about this (potential) outcome!

IF the swans were very savvy, and I'm pretty sure they are, they should be using their (and others) social media as a built-in focus group. Ask the right question and you'll get all sorts of great answers.

[Aprilbr]

IF the swans were very savvy, and I'm pretty sure they are, they should be using their (and others) social media as a built-in focus group. Ask the right question and you'll get all sorts of great answers.

I sincerely doubt that what fans say on social media has any real impact on drafting/recruiting strategies. We are not party to any of the negotiations so can only go on what we read/See as outsiders looking in.

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[AnnieH]

Surely someone at the club saw the crap Barrett, Cornes and Wallace were spouting all day yesterday. It was galling....do the club ever see this crap and think "Eff those effers.....this is bull@@@@....let's call it out and defend our reputation and our honour"?

Ever?

No.
We are above all that crap. Barrett, Cornes, et al know this, and it gets on their last nerve. They can't get anything out of anyone at our club, and they hate it.
The Victorian clubs like to tell you what colour undies they are wearing because it's all about getting your club's name in the media.
We have always played our cards close to our chest, whether it's Horse doing a presser, whether it's a big announcement, whether it's trading time.
This is why players want to play in Sydney.

[Markwebbos]

Barratt goes beserk ... again:

Sliding Doors: IF the Blues botched the Trade Period ... THEN - AFL.com.au

If, some people feel I'm carrying on too much about the failed Daniher bid ...

then, I don't care. It was amateurish from the outset, plain embarrassing at the finish, and I'm including his management in this assessment. You actually urged Joe to go public with his desire to become a Swan, and then let him down, and hurt him. If I was Joe, I'd be changing management, and still be looking to head to Sydney at the end of next year … but not the Swans.

[AnnieH]

Harley was very respectfully interviewed by Garry Lyon this morning. It's worth a listen: Harley: Clearly there is disappointment - sydneyswans.com.au

I thought Harley conducted himself with integrity in the interview. Harley is a decent person, who was put in a difficult position over this issue. He is clearly a mentor for Daniher. Sounds like Joe has been struggling a bit, feels isolated, and has approached us for a trade.

I suspect we wouldn't have solicited the trade. I suspect we preferred pick 5. But Harley had to manage his professional responsibilities and his personal regard for Daniher, as well as the bull@@@@ in the media. He's done it very well.

I wanted Daniher, for the right price. I think he'll get over his injuries and be a gun. He'd probably be better here, than playing for a dysfunctional club. I feel like he showed taste by seeking to come to a club which would look out for his interests He sounds like a good person. I hope he's a Swan in 12 months, but whatever happens, I hope he goes well.

They posted this on FB yesterday... juding the comments, it seems that Tom is the only one disappointed.

[Aprilbr]

Anyone with a passing interest in professional sports would be bemused by the “go home factor” in AFL. Look at the CV's of some footballers ( soccer ) many of them have played on 3 or 4 different continents by the time they retire. Look at some of the players going around in the A League who, in the most part, will be on much less money than AFL players. They do this because they are professionals and that is the nature of their chosen sport. It is often mentioned as a benefit by players that they get to see the world and get paid to do something they love.
NBA players move city’s almost overnight and professional leagues around the world are stocked with ex NBA players who have chosen to pursue their profession even if not at the highest possible level simply because they are professionals and let’s face it it probably beats working for a living.
Clubs treating players as commodities is not the ideal situation but at the end of the day it is simply the business they are in.
Players have the ultimate control in that they can choose not to be a part of it if they wish.

I think the culture of the AFL is very different to that found in many of the professional sports overseas. For example, most US footballers, basketball and baseball players are drafted into their pro teams at age 22-23 after first playing college sports. Playing college sports involves leaving home at age 18 and living interstate or at least in another city. They soon learn to be self-reliant and away from the apron-strings of home. By the time they are drafted they are prepared to go almost anywhere.

Our players, in contrast, are drafted at aged 17/18 straight out of home and some find it difficult to adjust away from home for the first time.

Soccer is the world game, so many players accept that to succeed they need to move overseas. Many come through soccer academies too which again requires a move from home at a young age.

Another issue to consider is club loyalty. Players seem much more willing to move clubs for money in these other sports.

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[AnnieH]

Hear! Hear! Quote of trade period for me was from Kinnear Beatson "We don't owe anyone anything, mate. They're professional footballers with contracts".

I think a lot of fans and media seem to forget that, but the clubs don't, and the good players don't either. Has anyone seen Moneyball? The scene I always remember is where Beane (Pitt) teaches Brand (Hill) how to tell a player he's been let go - "These are professional baseball players. You just do it. 'Peter, I need to let you go. Jack’s office’ll handle the paperwork.' Now professional baseball is certainly more ruthless than the AFL, but I think fans think that clubs are much more wishy-washy than they actually are.

This is WHY I love Kinnear. Absolutely no BS.
I've said it a gazillion time, and even to his face, if another team wants the success that the swans have, they would recruit Kinnear.
I know he's still got a year or two left on his contract, but I told him just after he signed the last one, that he's NEVER to leave us. Ever.
He really loved being told that he was appreciated. He's a tops bloke.

[Beerman]

Do you reckon general fan feedback, here and elsewhere plays a part in decisions reached ?

I mean has there ever been a time when we can post our opinions so publicly ?

Someone from the hierarchy must read them and go Shikes , the fans aren’t happy about this (potential) outcome!

The swans are fools if they let the public influence their list management decisions more than the tiniest bit, and I seriously doubt that they do. We are uninformed of the feelings of the players, know nothing of their medical records, are more-or-less in the dark regarding contracts and salaries and are completely ignorant of team and list strategy. How do you think this thread got to four and a half thousand posts!

I do feel certain that they monitor fan sites and fan opinions though, and would look to position messaging from the club to respond to concerns and leverage positive sentiment. If we were going to trade someone like Blakey, they would have had a media strategy for how they position that with fans - prepping careful messages for people like Nick, Horse and Harley in getting them in front of cameras to explain the decision. For certain recruits (ie. Buddy), they would also consider what they might do for membership and attendance, but let's face it - Papley isn't going to move the dial on that front and even Daniher is too big risk to factor in membership/attendance in the decision.

[KTigers]

I think the culture of the AFL is very different to that found in many of the professional sports overseas. For example, most US footballers, basketball and baseball players are drafted into their pro teams at age 22-23 after first playing college sports. Playing college sports involves leaving home at age 18 and living interstate or at least in another city. They soon learn to be self-reliant and away from the apron-strings of home. By the time they are drafted they are prepared to go almost anywhere.

Our players, in contrast, are drafted at aged 17/18 straight out of home and some find it difficult to adjust away from home for the first time.

Soccer is the world game, so many players accept that to succeed they need to move overseas. Many come through soccer academies too which again requires a move from home at a young age.

Another issue to consider is club loyalty. Players seem much more willing to move clubs for money in these other sports.

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In MLB players seem to be coming to the teams a little younger than that these days, 20-21 seems to be more common.
Even looking at the postseason games that on now there are a number of quite young guys in the lineups. In baseball, the
second string guys seem to move around a bit (especially the relief pitchers) but all the guns seem to have very long
(by AFL standards) contracts and tend to stay put. Baseball in the US is a truly national comp, and from day one budding
players have always understood they could end up playing anywhere. They are ridiculously well compensated of course.
The money in footy is a pittance in comparison. I think if footy wasn't so heavily focused around one city then the "go home"
factor would be less of an issue.

[mcs]

Barratt goes beserk ... again:

Sliding Doors: IF the Blues botched the Trade Period ... THEN - AFL.com.au

If, some people feel I'm carrying on too much about the failed Daniher bid ...

then, I don't care. It was amateurish from the outset, plain embarrassing at the finish, and I'm including his management in this assessment. You actually urged Joe to go public with his desire to become a Swan, and then let him down, and hurt him. If I was Joe, I'd be changing management, and still be looking to head to Sydney at the end of next year … but not the Swans.

Does anyone know the background as to why he seems to hate the swans so very much.

The only embarrassing person in all of this is him - what an a grade tool.

And its just comical to think that GWS could even afford him at the end of 2020. They have the small matter of Jeremy Cameron, Zac Williams and Lachie Whitfield all off contract to deal with.....

What a load of utter codswallop though.... dribble he came up with after spilling 1 too many beers on his dining room table, drinking alone as nobody likes him.

[Faunac8]

Does anyone remember the good old days when journalists used to pride themselves on reporting the facts in an in unbiased and unemotional manner

[barry]

Does anyone know the background as to why he seems to hate the swans so very much.

The only embarrassing person in all of this is him - what an a grade tool.

And its just comical to think that GWS could even afford him at the end of 2020. They have the small matter of Jeremy Cameron, Zac Williams and Lachie Whitfield all off contract to deal with.....

What a load of utter codswallop though.... dribble he came up with after spilling 1 too many beers on his dining room table, drinking alone as nobody likes him.

GWS could only afford him in a Daniher / Cameron swap.
There has been some idle talk about Cameron going to Victoria. If so, this could be the long-play by Dodo. Its certainly a better deal for them.

[Beerman]

GWS could only afford him in a Daniher / Cameron swap.
There has been some idle talk about Cameron going to Victoria. If so, this could be the long-play by Dodo. Its certainly a better deal for them.

Slightly different sort of players, but this would make a lot of sense. I don’t think GWS are crying out for a player like Daniher, but they could probably use him better than we could, and are likely to be in a better position to trade next year too, if it comes to that.

[Markwebbos]

A reverse Buddy Franklin?

[bloodspirit]

The swans are fools if they let the public influence their list management decisions more than the tiniest bit, and I seriously doubt that they do. We are uninformed of the feelings of the players, know nothing of their medical records, are more-or-less in the dark regarding contracts and salaries and are completely ignorant of team and list strategy. How do you think this thread got to four and a half thousand posts!

I do feel certain that they monitor fan sites and fan opinions though, and would look to position messaging from the club to respond to concerns and leverage positive sentiment. If we were going to trade someone like Blakey, they would have had a media strategy for how they position that with fans - prepping careful messages for people like Nick, Horse and Harley in getting them in front of cameras to explain the decision. For certain recruits (ie. Buddy), they would also consider what they might do for membership and attendance, but let's face it - Papley isn't going to move the dial on that front and even Daniher is too big risk to factor in membership/attendance in the decision.

I completely agree with this and wanted to make the same point. List managers wouldn't value our opinions about which players are worth keeping or trading or anything like that the slightest bit. However, they (actually, not so much the list managers as the CEO and club) might want to keep an eye on fans' sentiments to know how it could impact on memberships, attendances, viewing numbers and how they get their messages out.

I also agree with those who point out that it's great (albeit sometimes frustrating) that our club does not really engage with the media and generally reveals very little and plays a straight bat. (I agree with this regarding trading and coaching but not so much as regards news about players.)

Incidentally, I was chuffed when one of the pundits on Trade Radio towards the end of deadline day (it may have been Mitch Cleary) said they considered Kinnear Beatson to be the most honest list manager of all the clubs' list managers.

Lastly, this article reports that HPN data shows that the loss of Zak Jones was pretty significant - he has the bulk of his career left to play and is a good player: The AFL trade period's big winners and losers, according to the data - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation). Lucky we didn't lose Papley too!