2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[bloodspirit]

I suppose everyone knows that picks can continue to be traded up to the draft. I figure that if GWS can't trade up to pick 3 and Green is still available at our pick 5, they will give up around 400 points to move up one spot, knowing that we will bid on Green.

If GWS are unable to make a deal with the Demons (or Crows) - which I think they will - this is an excellent win-win suggestion that I think the Giants would go for.

[Mountain Man]

We haven't been big participants in the trade merry go round recently with, I think only 6 player on our list who we have traded for (now 7 with Taylor) which is about 15% of our list.

Franklin and Kennedy, who are definitely in our best 22, with Sinclair an honorable mention. Then 3 back up players in Menzel, Clarke and Thurlow.

There are more "ex" Swans with Jones and Cameron joining Nankervis and Mitchell (useful pair) with Newman and Hannebery also decent players. Jetta is also that, but matches the trade with Sinclair. Rohan and Membery are probably not missed - and definitely not Sam Murray.

[i'm-uninformed2]

A few random comments:

• I believe the Swans now have the youngest list in the league. It's very close for the 3 youngest. There's always more uncertainty about the future when it depends on young prospects developing to their potential. I expect a lot of players that we haven't seen much to step up next year.
• Cal Twomey rated Essendon's trade period highly for making it impossible for us to find a reasonable deal to recruit Daniher. But rates Sydney's efforts poor, for not caving in to ridiculous demands for Daniher. I wonder how we would have been rated . if we had offered picks 5 and 9 plus McCartin, which probably would have gotten the deal done, but would clearly have been excessive in the extreme.
• Gold Coast commended for not rolling over on Jack Martin, but we are castigated for not rolling over on Daniher.
• St. Kilda rated the big winners in the trade period, while I rate them one of loses, having overpaid for Hill, losing Acres and effectively falling out of the draft for 2 years. What will the Saints look like in a few years when Max King is ready to be a big time key forward? They still look far from creating a critical mass of quality players to challenge for a top 4 spot any time soon.
• I noticed a few RWOers have wondered if the Swans' management read this forum. I commented earlier in this thread that I thought they would be remiss if they didn't. The fact that on balance we didn't want to do the Daniher deal this year has merit and apparently coincides with that of management. I would have assigned one of the coaches, like Kirk or Perris to keep tabs on what we are saying. You never know when someone here will come up with a brilliant idea.
• Our midfield is not as poor as some have made it out to be. We just need a few more players already on our list to reach their peaks.
• We lost a lot of experience the past couple of years, but we are now looking at a bonanza period for list building, with JPK and Buddy as the only key players likely to retire in the next 3 years. Yet we are likely to add around 9 or 10 quality AFL level players in the next 3 drafts, based on recent history. A few years down the road, we should have some real depth of talent on the list.

I can't believe the hype re St Kilda. They've sold the farm for Hill, and beyond that - potential or B grade talent.

I'll laugh my head off in two years when Max King looks around and sees an average team with no influx of talent to go with him and says: bugger this, I'm off to the Gold Coast.

[Blood Fever]

[QUOTE=Hotpotato;788335]Do you reckon general fan feedback, here and elsewhere plays a part in decisions reached ?

I mean has there ever been a time when we can post our opinions so publicly ?

Someone from the hierarchy must read them and go Shikes , the fans aren’t happy about this (potential) outcome![/Quote

Fans would definitely have more influence than footy journos

[Swansongster]

I wonder how Paps is feeling this morning? Relieved or Annoyed?

Just thought I'd pass on details of a chat with a bloke at work who claims to be a lifelong friend of the Papley family. He's a straight up bloke so I have no reason to doubt his word.

He said Tom is very happy in Sydney. Didn't really want to leave. They (the Papley mob) are big on old-fashioned family values and guard their privacy with most close relatives marrying their childhood sweethearts and sticking with them for life. Tom's girlfriend is missing home and he was doing what he thought was the right thing by her in asking to be traded. He thought there might be a baby on the way (but had no definite knowledge). He said that Tom loves his footy and will be going as hard as ever next year in pre-season training and season proper (being traded or not traded wouldn't change that).

He thought it would probably come up again next trade season so we should hope he has another good, uninjured season to raise currency further. He also said he was a bit of a ratbag as a kid and not as talented as some of his 1st cousins (as juniors) who also played in the AFL. I forget the names he mentioned as I had never heard of them. Someone Ross (perhaps) who played 40-odd games for North (I think he said) and another who played half a dozen for Melbourne (from memory). Both cruelled by injury.

Anyway, he was convinced we should have no worries about Tom's attitude next year but if his girlfriend still wants out of Sin City the trade circus will reoccur next year.

[Ludwig]

I'm disappointed in the Papley situation and wish a trade could have been made. According to Papley's manager, Carlton offered pick 9 and a swap of later picks, not specifying what those picks were. My guess it was pick 25 (which they needed to get the Jack Martin deal done) for pick 43, which would have value the trade around a pick 16, which is unders, but we would still have pick 9.

Link to article: Papley will need to settle in again after trade disappointment | Zero Hanger

I am always bemused by this go home affliction that seems to beset AFL athletes, but not other athletes from around the world, who regularly move clubs, and in many leagues on a moment's notice and without consent.

Papley must have been thrilled to get drafted by the Swans. If he wanted to stay in Melbourne or Bunyip, why didn't he just remain a plumber? Being a professional athlete is not for everyone. Just having to notify ASADA where I am every day would be way over the top for me, and keep from professional sport, even if I were the best athlete in the world.

Which bring up a point: I don't think that Ben and Max King should be permitted to play in the same city, since it would be too easy for one to take drugs while the other pissed in the bottle.

I don't understand why Papley goes overseas with his mates from the Swans after the season ends instead of spending precious time with his girlfriend. He went to America last year with Aliir. .

[Cosmic Wizard]

Wasn't that impressive with Harley or Gardiner.

Maybe that first meeting with Daniher wasn't about moving, but somewhere further down the line it was brought up.

Should have just been more open about it; what to lose?

Essendon also keep leaking to the press; the narrative was what Essendon wanted for Daniher, not what we would pay.

Gardiner also didn't look comfortable in front of the cameras, but that is a big part of the job.

Hope he can grow in the role, but maybe some coaching would help; there are lot of places which provide this.

Also after the deal fell through, we should have being on the front foot saying we were happy keeping our picks.

This allow the Melbourne Media to crucify us, when we really came out on front.

If we had pick up Daniher contract, we would have to pay $900,000.

Next year if still want him, we can tell him the price and he can take it or leave it.

Nothing wrong with going to a strong draft and picking up some good players.

[0918330512]

Ryan = Lewis Taylor. For some reason I thought his name was Lewis Ryan. Senility setting in.

We are a results driven competition, and the results show we were a minor player in the trading period, despite a number of opportunities.

Dealing with dodo is hard. But he wanted a player. Could it have not been Papley, or Jones, or a 3 way trade with another team (eg Jono Patton). Did we leave no stone un-turned to get a fair deal ?

Facts/quasi facts:
1) it’s been quoted that Harley entertained the option of including Jones / Papley in a trade and Essendon didn’t want them
2) Jones nominated StKilda, Papley nominated Carlton
3) neither Jones nor Papley expressed any reported interest in joining Essendon
4) Patton nominated Hawthorn
5) you cannot force a player to sign with another club if they don’t want to
6) many things have been openly reported, many other turner stones may not have been reported openly

Fiction:
Players can be traded like footy cards in the playground

It’s not as simple as “Could it have not been Papley, or Jones” - or perhaps it could be that simple. The simple answer is, no.

[stevoswan]

Wasn't that impress(ed) with Harley or Gardiner.

Gardiner also didn't look comfortable in front of the cameras, but that is a big part of the job.

Hope he can grow in the role, but maybe some coaching would help; there are lot of places which provide this.

Also after the deal fell through, we should have being on the front foot saying we were happy keeping our picks.

This allow the Melbourne Media to crucify us, when we really came out on front.

If we had pick up Daniher contract, we would have to pay $900,000.

Next year if still want him, we can tell him the price and he can take it or leave it.

This was my main concern when I said yesterday that Gardiner could have done a little better.

He should have been on the front foot more re: Danihers injury history and outlook, not wanting to pay overs for a potential crock and wanting to take decent picks to the draft.

I would also have loved him to tell the journo's to stop turning Victorian rumours into facts and then embellishing them to make our club look bad. I actually thought this was why he looked uncomfortable.....so why didn't he fight back and call them all out as bull@@@@ters and set the record straight?

Surely someone at the club saw the crap Barrett, Cornes and Wallace were spouting all day yesterday. It was galling....do the club ever see this crap and think "Eff those effers.....this is bull@@@@....let's call it out and defend our reputation and our honour"?

Ever?

[111431]

the opinions of the media are merely opinions. We have plenty here who offer learned opinions ! Who cares what they say (which seems to the Swans' view) - let's all move on with life. It is only a game after all

[Blood Fever]

This was my main concern when I said yesterday that Gardiner could have done a little better.

He should have been on the front foot more re: Danihers injury history and outlook, not wanting to pay overs for a potential crock and wanting to take decent picks to the draft.

I would also have loved him to tell the journo's to stop turning Victorian rumours into facts and then embellishing them to make our club look bad. I actually thought this was why he looked uncomfortable.....so why didn't he fight back and call them all out as bull@@@@ters and set the record straight?

Surely someone at the club saw the crap Barrett, Cornes and Wallace were spouting all day yesterday. It was galling....do the club ever see this crap and think "Eff those effers.....this is bull@@@@....let's call it out and defend our reputation and our honour"? Ever?

Disagree. Why stoop to refute guys like Barrett, Cornes etc. Waste of energy. Swans were commended in their dealings by Essendon and Carlton and we reciprocated. Criticisms are water off a duck's(swan's) back outside of Melbourne. The media circus in Melbourne is not going to change- set up for nuffies to argue about.

[stevoswan]

I understand that the Swans may realise they are an outsider in a largely rigged league and may think 'why upset them more?', thinking the softly softly approach shall see us through.....don't offend anyone and everyone will love us again one day, like they used to.

If this is the case, it doesn't auger well for the future, when the Vic-centric crap will only get worse. Any chance of making this league TRULY national in every way, including fixture and venue integrity, trading integrity and a fair GF venue year in year out, not locked into Richmond and Collingwoods home ground for the next zillion years, seems light years away if we can't even stand up to some journo's.....let alone the actual powerbrokers.

No wonder the A(V)FL feel and act like they're untouchable.....

[SeanM]

Yeah I think it is counterproductive to jump into the media to refute what certain commentators have said. It gives them more ammunition and creates a public spectacle.

They would love us to publicly criticise other players, coaches, clubs or media personalities.

[hammo]

It's clear the Swans weren't 'playing the game' to the same extent as some other clubs during trade week but in saying that there was only one logical source to the earlier revelation that Papley had triggered an extension in his contract.

Meantime Tom's manager had his hand in the story about being desperately unhappy in Sydney and Essendon's people seemed to have a direct line to Matthew Lloyd to set the media agenda each day.

It's all very messy but that's how the sausage is made. You also have to laugh when they all front the media later saying everyone acted respectfully to each other.

One final thing. Journalists rating clubs' trade week performance is probably one of the most useless exercises going around. Here is a helpful hint: the clubs with the highest ratings are probably the clubs who leak the most to the media. It's just journalists looking after their mates. The fact Sydney has been routinely slammed by the so-called experts probably indicates our guys refused to speak to anyone.

[aardvark]

One final thing. Journalists rating clubs' trade week performance is probably one of the most useless exercises going around. Here is a helpful hint: the clubs with the highest ratings are probably the clubs who leak the most to the media. It's just journalists looking after their mates. The fact Sydney has been routinely slammed by the so-called experts probably indicates our guys refused to speak to anyone.

Exactly! There's no gold cup for winning trade week.