2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Velour&Ruffles]

I disagree. I don’t think we’d be bonkers not to go after Constable, but we Should certainly be trying to bolster a midfield in some way that will lose Kennedy in a year or two. You just can’t have enough good mids, some of them don’t turn out and if there is a squeeze for spots they either adapt to flanks or pockets, or they get squeezed out. Depth is also important.

Looking at it from my work perspective, it would be like us not going after more accounts as we have enough big fish on the books and some smaller fish coming through that we’re optimistic about . So let’s sit on our hands and hope they all continue on their current output / trajectory and not even try to add more to the pool. It’s madness to me. Some of the mids on our books ( or about to be on our books) will quote possibly not make it, either for injury or failure to live up to potential. Kennedy could go down early, Parker could go down early. Campbell could do two ACL’s. We lack depth, if we can get a big mid in on the cheap ( relatively speaking ) then yeah I think we’d be mad not to.


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It's not a valid comparison. I Stand With Ludwig on this one.
In footy, you have to have a spread of players across a range of different types/capabilities. By your logic, you could have 42 great midfielders on your list and still be a great team. Unless that midfielder is Dusty, that won't work.
Rather than getting in excellent midfielder #11, we may be better off as an overall unit getting in excellent ruckman #2.

[Melbourne_Blood]

It's not a valid comparison. I Stand With Ludwig on this one.
In footy, you have to have a spread of players across a range of different types/capabilities. By your logic, you could have 42 great midfielders on your list and still be a great team. Unless that midfielder is Dusty, that won't work.
Rather than getting in excellent midfielder #11, we may be better off as an overall unit getting in excellent ruckman #2.

Of course you but we don’t have enough good midfielders. We have one very good one ( Parker ) , one who used to be but is declining ( Joey ) a couple of good- average ones and a few young potentially good ( hopefully great ) ones. Our midfield is a problem. Having a large group of elite-good-solid midfielders is the biggest success factor in our game IMO. The cup isn’t exactly overflowing. We lose games in the middle, Save them in defence and occasionally Tin ass ones with good forward efficiency from super low F50 entries. Solving the problem in the middle helps the problem at the root. Yes we need a ruckman but a solid one would do, we don’t need Grundy.


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[troyjones2525]

Of course you but we don’t have enough good midfielders. We have one very good one ( Parker ) , one who used to be but is declining ( Joey ) a couple of good- average ones and a few young potentially good ( hopefully great ) ones. Our midfield is a problem. Having a large group of elite-good-solid midfielders is the biggest success factor in our game IMO. The cup isn’t exactly overflowing. We lose games in the middle, Save them in defence and occasionally Tin ass ones with good forward efficiency from super low F50 entries. Solving the problem in the middle helps the problem at the root. Yes we need a ruckman but a solid one would do, we don’t need Grundy.


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But the point is that we aren't overloaded with talent in the midfield, none of our kids are guaranteed inside midfield guns, nor are any of them overly big so it is definitely a need for us IMO.

Edit: Oops, this was meant to be a reply to Velour&Ruffles.



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[Melbourne_Blood]

But the point is that we aren't overloaded with talent in the midfield, none of our kids are guaranteed inside midfield guns, nor are any of them overly big so it is definitely a need for us IMO.

Edit: Oops, this was meant to be a reply to Velour.



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I agree TJ ( assume this reply was meant for someone else [emoji23])


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[troyjones2525]

I agree TJ ( assume this reply was meant for someone else [emoji23])


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Haha see my original post with the edit down the bottom! Lol.

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[Melbourne_Blood]

Haha see my original post with the edit down the bottom! Lol.

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Literally popped just after I posted this [emoji108]


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[Markwebbos]

The trouble with, and joy of, this tIme of year is that we are all like kids in a candy store surrounded by tantalising prospects.

But the reality is most of them aren’t available and some aren’t getting games at their current clubs for a reason.

This year we need all of our draft picks and MORE because we have an amazing draft hand

But that restricts our ability to pick up players unless we use future picks or offload players with currency.

[TheBloods]

Yes that is what happened but that was a result of both blind loyalty and some bad decision making on behalf of both our coaches and football department as they decided to stick with the players that had gone to battle for us time and again (Hanners as an example) at the expense of Mitchell and others.

I still argue that having an abundance of talent in the middle is better than being conservative and would trust and hope we would not make the same mistakes as we had in the past!

And for the record I personally would rate Constable as a better prospect above anyone on our current list as an inside midfielder (and I rate Rowbottom), he's a 192cm bull who knows how to find it and is a better user than Joey.

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Constable is a flat footed butcher. If he was our best inside mid prospect we would be in dire trouble.

[Ludwig]

I can't actually see how having too many quality mids is a problem we don't need!

You have to ask why Geelong, who are renown for excellent list management, feel that Charlie Constable is not a player they need, even though Ablett retited and their 2 best mids, Selwood and Dangerfield will be 33 and 31 yo next year. Constable is the totality of their inside midfield depth. Why would they let him go? Why did they play a rather ordinary player like Sam Simpson ahead of Constable?

I'm not making any negative rating on Constable. He might well become a very good player. Maybe even an All Australian. List management is an optimization problem with limited resources. There is a limit to the number of players on a list and a salary limitation. We can drill down to positional constraints and others as well. Take away the limitations and we could just keep adding players indefinitely.

I'm not being critical that you think Constable could be a good player for us. It's just whether he fits within the constraints faced by all list managers.

[bennyfabulous]

Treloar anybody? If neither Queensland team want him. Sydney is only a 1hr 30min? flight. He could spend a couple days there every week. Getting a gun mid worth $800k+ for $500k-$600k seems like a bit of a good moneyball option.

[troyjones2525]

You have to ask why Geelong, who are renown for excellent list management, feel that Charlie Constable is not a player they need, even though Ablett retited and their 2 best mids, Selwood and Dangerfield will be 33 and 31 yo next year. Constable is the totality of their inside midfield depth. Why would they let him go? Why did they play a rather ordinary player like Sam Simpson ahead of Constable?

I'm not making any negative rating on Constable. He might well become a very good player. Maybe even an All Australian. List management is an optimization problem with limited resources. There is a limit to the number of players on a list and a salary limitation. We can drill down to positional constraints and others as well. Take away the limitations and we could just keep adding players indefinitely.

I'm not being critical that you think Constable could be a good player for us. It's just whether he fits within the constraints faced by all list managers.

I've been high on him since his draft year and his record when playing is pretty impressive if you look at his stats as well as his VFL form from last year.

I can't answer as to why Geelong can't fit him in but Hawthorn were the same when they had Sewell etc and chose not to hold Joey.

I just think he's got that prototype big mid look about him, like Cripps, Bont, Mundy etc who are all above 190cm.

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[Melbourne_Blood]

I've been high on him since his draft year and his record when playing is pretty impressive if you look at his stats as well as his VFL form from last year.

I can't answer as to why Geelong can't fit him in but Hawthorn were the same when they had Sewell etc and chose not to hold Joey.

I just think he's got that prototype big mid look about him, like Cripps, Bont, Mundy etc who are all above 190cm.

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Yep. Tom Mitchell couldn’t get a game for us in 2015 and won a Brownlow 3 seasons later. Butler couldn’t get a game for Richmond last year and should have been AA this year. The list goes on. Again not saying Constable is definitely that player but he looks like a decent option, as does Brodie from GC. I’d be disappointed if the swans did not at least try to get one of these type of players in the upcoming trade period.


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[Aprilbr]

Clearly our trade options are very limited this year due to the need for us to keep picks (points) to bring in the Academy boys. So trading in these midfielders from other Clubs would be difficult. I think that we are more likely to trade in a Ruck.

[MattW]

I suspect most of us would like pick 3, Campbell, Gulden, and a ruck. It's hard to see how all of that happens, and we bring someone like Constable in, without giving up real assets. Even if we are inclined to do that as general principle, I doubt we have much to trade. I would have thought our main trade action relates to the ruckman and then it's to the draft.

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[Faunac8]

Another ruckman mentioned in relation to us this morning on AFL Trade Radio: Lloyd Meek. Hope he’s the exception to the theory of nominative determinism

I had to google it but this is possibly one of the cleverest comments seen on this forum for quite some time. Well payed sir.
I liked the look of Meek when he was mentioned a month or so back

https://www.afl.com.au/video/172023/draft-prospect-lloyd-meek?videoId=172023&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1476237067001