2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ludwig]

"Ruckmen in the modern game do not win you premierships. Ruckmen are the most overrated position in the game with the least influence on the outcome.

Are people writing opinion pieces quoting me yet again?

[dejavoodoo44]

I've been reviewing a few tapes on this year's draft. Not many. Just a few. But I can say a few things with some confidence:

• We will have to put up with the Bulldogs being a top team for the next decade. Ugle-Hagan could be the next Buddy. Looks terrific. Great NGA steal.
• Let's not worry about our midfield. Campbell and Gulden are both guns. They are both so impressive with all aspects of their game. Add Stephens, McInerney, Blakey and Rowbottom and we've got a 6 gun midfielders for a long, long time, if we can keep them all. Blakey's the oldest at 20. It will be like a massive wave, getting bigger every year.

And steal is a good description of most NGA selections. I suspect that the Victorian clubs pre-draft involvement, is along the lines of checking the promising kids in their zones, to see if any of them have ethnic sounding names or look a bit dark. Then perhaps running a workshop or hosting a tour of the premises, as a bit of a bonding exercise. Et voila, go to the top of the draft.

But anyway, definitely agree that our midfield has plenty of promising depth and that we should prioritize other areas. In regards to young mids, we have a few that you haven't mentioned. Warner was recruited as a hard at it, inside mid. He impressed enough to get a debut, and did a few good things, despite being played out of position. With another preseason and some game time in the VFL, he'll probably be repaying the investment by the second half of next season. Ling was signed as a mid, and is skilful enough to still make a name for himself there. Wicks and Bell are excellent tacklers and both are combative enough to spend time inside. Florent of course. And at a slightly higher age bracket, Heeney, Papley and Mills/Godot, can all rotate into our centre set up, for a bit of variation. So, no real need to recruit a midfielder.

In contrast, there seems a real need for a KPF. Buddy might come good, or he might not. Reid isn't quite good enough to lead the attack. McCartin now looks like he's going to become a gun defender and Blakey looks like he is going to develop as an exciting and hard to match up on, hybrid player. Something like, one half outside mid, one quarter inside mid and one quarter forward flanker; but not a KPF. Which leaves McLean and Amartey: who while promising, are both more second ruck and deep forward types. I'm not sure if either have the running power to be dominant KPFs (hmmm, I wonder if my deranged predictive text was agreeing with me? It just changed KPFs to Logs).

So, I definitely think either McDonald or Thilthorpe with our pick 3. The vision of both does look encouraging. McDonald can clunk a mark, kick straight and long, and seems to have footy smarts. While Thilthorpe reminds me a bit of the King brothers. At 200cm he can spend time in the ruck, but he's quick and has strong hands. Would be very happy with either.

[gazza]

why do scribes think we need a ruckman. we have naismith,mccullum,alir,amerty,mclean,and knoll. they should all
be able to annoy other ruckmen.

[Thunder Shaker]

Everyone who thinks we need a gun ruckman to succeed should read that article......stuff it, I'll just quote the relevant section:

"Ruckmen in the modern game do not win you premierships."

A counterexample: Jason Ball to Nick Davis, 2005 Semi Final. Jason Ball to Amon Buchanan, 2005 Grand Final.

Has the "modern game" changed that much that a good tap from a ruckman is now worthless?

[Thunder Shaker]

And steal is a good description of most NGA selections. I suspect that the Victorian clubs pre-draft involvement, is along the lines of checking the promising kids in their zones, to see if any of them have ethnic sounding names or look a bit dark. Then perhaps running a workshop or hosting a tour of the premises, as a bit of a bonding exercise. Et voila, go to the top of the draft.

There would be an overhauling of the NGA rules if the Swans were involved in secretly locking away the best talent like this. Maybe even punished despite not breaking any rules. If a Melbourne-based club was involved, don't expect much to change. It's a rort they would prefer to keep.

[stevoswan]

A counterexample: Jason Ball to Nick Davis, 2005 Semi Final. Jason Ball to Amon Buchanan, 2005 Grand Final.

Has the "modern game" changed that much that a good tap from a ruckman is now worthless?

Good tap ruckmen (of the Nic Nat, Gawn or Grundy mold) are just so rare so most clubs plumb for a good 'competitive' ruckman....that we have those already, coupled with the risk, time and effort to develop a newbie (with no guarantee of success) probably makes getting a promising KPF a greater precedent.

[Thunder Shaker]

why do scribes think we need a ruckman. we have naismith,mccullum,alir,amerty,mclean,and knoll. they should all
be able to annoy other ruckmen.

Naismith is our #1 ruckman and he has played 30 games in seven seasons due to injuries, including two games since 2017.

You've forgotten Sinclair, and who is Mccullum?

Our ruck performances this year. Hitouts in each game, our rucks who got 10 or more hitouts listed:
1: Syd 34, Adel 34. (W 3) Naismith 28
(COVID-19 break)
2: Syd 34, Ess 30. (L 6) Sinclair 27
3: Syd 23, North 35. (W 11) Sinclair 19
4: Syd 45, Dogs 18. (L 28) Naismith 25, Sinclair 19
5: Syd 10, West Coast 46. (L 34) --
6: Syd 5, Richmond 32. (L 8) --
7: Syd 20, Gold Coast 40. (L 32) Sinclair 16
8: Syd 27, Haw 29. (W 7) Sinclair 24
9: Syd 37, St Kilda 35. (L 53) Sinclair 27, Aliir 10
10: Syd 24, Coll 33. (L 9) Sinclair 22
11: Bye
12: Syd 38, GWS 30. (W 41) Sinclair 28, Reid 10
13: Syd 32, Frem 28. (L 31) Sinclair 26
14: Syd 39, Port 35. (L 26) Sinclair 27, Aliir 10
15: Syd 19, Melb 38. (W 21) Sinclair 15
16: Syd 31, Carl 27. (L 5) Sinclair 21
17: Syd 20, Bris 34. (L 32) Aliir 11
18: Syd 25, Geel 25. (L 6) Sinclair 22

Not much correlation between ruck performances and game results...

[dejavoodoo44]

There would be an overhauling of the NGA rules if the Swans were involved in secretly locking away the best talent like this. Maybe even punished despite not breaking any rules. If a Melbourne-based club was involved, don't expect much to change. It's a rort they would prefer to keep.

Apparently there is some sort of move on to make the NGAs less of a rort, but I can't help thinking, that somehow we will also be penalised.

[crackedactor 01]

why do scribes think we need a ruckman. we have naismith,mccullum,alir,amerty,mclean,and knoll. they should all
be able to annoy other ruckmen.

I notice Longmire has a good opinion on Amartey. Maybe getting a ruckman is not that urgent. Never heard of McCullum ?

[Bloody Hell]

Not much correlation between ruck performances and game results...

There's a difference between taps and taps to advantage.

[Ludwig]

And steal is a good description of most NGA selections. I suspect that the Victorian clubs pre-draft involvement, is along the lines of checking the promising kids in their zones, to see if any of them have ethnic sounding names or look a bit dark. Then perhaps running a workshop or hosting a tour of the premises, as a bit of a bonding exercise. Et voila, go to the top of the draft.

But anyway, definitely agree that our midfield has plenty of promising depth and that we should prioritize other areas. In regards to young mids, we have a few that you haven't mentioned. Warner was recruited as a hard at it, inside mid. He impressed enough to get a debut, and did a few good things, despite being played out of position. With another preseason and some game time in the VFL, he'll probably be repaying the investment by the second half of next season. Ling was signed as a mid, and is skilful enough to still make a name for himself there. Wicks and Bell are excellent tacklers and both are combative enough to spend time inside. Florent of course. And at a slightly higher age bracket, Heeney, Papley and Mills/Godot, can all rotate into our centre set up, for a bit of variation. So, no real need to recruit a midfielder.

In contrast, there seems a real need for a KPF. Buddy might come good, or he might not. Reid isn't quite good enough to lead the attack. McCartin now looks like he's going to become a gun defender and Blakey looks like he is going to develop as an exciting and hard to match up on, hybrid player. Something like, one half outside mid, one quarter inside mid and one quarter forward flanker; but not a KPF. Which leaves McLean and Amartey: who while promising, are both more second ruck and deep forward types. I'm not sure if either have the running power to be dominant KPFs (hmmm, I wonder if my deranged predictive text was agreeing with me? It just changed KPFs to Logs).

So, I definitely think either McDonald or Thilthorpe with our pick 3. The vision of both does look encouraging. McDonald can clunk a mark, kick straight and long, and seems to have footy smarts. While Thilthorpe reminds me a bit of the King brothers. At 200cm he can spend time in the ruck, but he's quick and has strong hands. Would be very happy with either.

Agree with all of this.

And so tired of waiting for Godot.

[grarmy]

...And at a slightly higher age bracket, Heeney, Papley and Mills/Godot, can all rotate into our centre set up, for a bit of variation. So, no real need to recruit a midfielder.

We are waiting for Godot.

[The Runner]

The value of a ruck is not in hit outs. But in a multitude of areas like clearing space in a congested area (peak Mumford, Lycett, Nic Nat), being an extra midfielder (Aliir against Geelong), going forward to apply scoring pressure (Chol is very good).
If you can acquire one that helps in these areas cheaply, happy days. The assessment from The Roar is bang on

The problem with Grundy, is that with hit outs not really meaning anything, his value is in his numbers as a midfielder. They don't need another midfielder that can't kick efficiently - they already have Treloar and Adams to do that. So he becomes expensive without the relevant upside.
That team would benefit a lot from a Mumford/Lycett type.

[KSAS]

According to SEN, we & GWS are showing interest in Pruess. Not sure of their sources.

[The Runner]

According to SEN, we & GWS are showing interest in Pruess. Not sure of their sources.

Unfortunately we don't have a version of Woj from ESPN in Australia. So, until the player or club comments, sources are useless.