Greatest ever Swan?

[bloodspirit]

Great post Graeme.

I second that. I have been loving the first person accounts of people watching the careers of past players. Especially those before my time. I did get to see Paul Kelly play but it was before I knew anything about football and I didn't properly appreciate his outstanding qualities.

Love the Dennis Cometti quote too!

[dimelb]

Great post Graeme.

I third that.

Engaging lead-in and the growth of a love for the club. And it's a bonus to read a Cometti-ism I hadn't heard before.

[Mr Magoo]

In terms of greatest players , Lockett is a freak .

He had a career that went 16 years (plus one more crappy comeback year ) and he averaged 4.8 goals per game in teams that were for the most part very very average. Its much harder to be a good forward in an average team than a midfielder. While skilton may have played in average teams , being on the ball meant that he was also in a position to win his own ball. Not so for lockett which I think adds to his freakishness (if such a word exists).

He kicked 77 goals in just his second year as an 18 year old and over 100 six times and if you look at his record you will see that the only reason he pretty much didnt kick 100 in many other years was lack of games . Obviously his only downfall was his judiciary record (hence the lack of games in some years) but the consistency of his goal scoring was phenomenal.

I never saw Skilton but his record and demeanour speak volumes for the type of player and person he is and I couldnt argue about him being the greatest swans but I also agree that Kelly was integral to lifting us out of the quagmire of the 80's.

In more modern times , Goodes is a standout for his ability to win Brownlows from playing ruck to ruck rover . Thats pretty much unheard of and showed how versatile the guy was. Buddy is a player you just want to go to watch and his ability to influence games and do things that no one else can do is unparralleled.

Roll on 2020 !

[Bloods05]

In terms of greatest players , Lockett is a freak .

He had a career that went 16 years (plus one more crappy comeback year ) and he averaged 4.8 goals per game in teams that were for the most part very very average. Its much harder to be a good forward in an average team than a midfielder. While skilton may have played in average teams , being on the ball meant that he was also in a position to win his own ball. Not so for lockett which I think adds to his freakishness (if such a word exists).

He kicked 77 goals in just his second year as an 18 year old and over 100 six times and if you look at his record you will see that the only reason he pretty much didnt kick 100 in many other years was lack of games . Obviously his only downfall was his judiciary record (hence the lack of games in some years) but the consistency of his goal scoring was phenomenal.

I never saw Skilton but his record and demeanour speak volumes for the type of player and person he is and I couldnt argue about him being the greatest swans but I also agree that Kelly was integral to lifting us out of the quagmire of the 80's.

In more modern times , Goodes is a standout for his ability to win Brownlows from playing ruck to ruck rover . Thats pretty much unheard of and showed how versatile the guy was. Buddy is a player you just want to go to watch and his ability to influence games and do things that no one else can do is unparralleled.

Roll on 2020 !

All fair points, except for the one about forwards versus midfielders. Skilton played his whole career as a rover, when midfielders were a variety of soccer player, and when rovers were heavily dependent on their ruckman. It was a different game then. With the exception of a couple of brief exceptions in the form of Ken Boyd and Fred Way, Skilton played throughout to a losing ruck. He also managed to garner three Brownlow votes many, many times in losing teams, something that is almost unheard of in today's game.

[Mr Magoo]

All fair points, except for the one about forwards versus midfielders. Skilton played his whole career as a rover, when midfielders were a variety of soccer player, and when rovers were heavily dependent on their ruckman. It was a different game then. With the exception of a couple of brief exceptions in the form of Ken Boyd and Fred Way, Skilton played throughout to a losing ruck. He also managed to garner three Brownlow votes many, many times in losing teams, something that is almost unheard of in today's game.

Fair point , and if the games was played differently then he must have had amazing ball sense. What do you mean by " a variety of soccer player". How was the midfield play different ?

[bloodspirit]

All fair points, except for the one about forwards versus midfielders. Skilton played his whole career as a rover, when midfielders were a variety of soccer player, and when rovers were heavily dependent on their ruckman. It was a different game then. With the exception of a couple of brief exceptions in the form of Ken Boyd and Fred Way, Skilton played throughout to a losing ruck. He also managed to garner three Brownlow votes many, many times in losing teams, something that is almost unheard of in today's game.

Respect for the depth of your knowledge.

I take the point, that the term 'midfielder' was not even used in footy back then and was an expression used at that time only in the round ball game.

[stevoswan]

Paul Kelly is seriously hard done by in this thread. Club captain ( courageous) , Brownlow medallist , multiple AA and B&F winner , seriously tough and a serious player ( brave ,skilful ,hard , quick ). Went at nearly a goal a game too. Bit stiff PK, not much love on RWO for his outstanding contributions.

It's pretty much been all about Skilts and Goodsey.....as it should be but I'd put Captain Courageous just behind those two......he was the 'Bloods spirit' personified.

- - - Updated - - -

Except he actually did win one.

Oh dear.....I forgot. So, he got the 'fairest' bit right for one season at least.

[Scottee]

My late father who played for South reckoned Laurie Nash was considered by many, including Jack Dyer, as the best ever player. Skilton gets my vote. One famous name that has been missing from the conversation is Ron Clegg who, along with Herbie Matthews, was a Brownlow Medallist.

My late father who also player for South played alongside Clegg and Skilton and rated Clegg "on his day" the best footballer he had ever seen (though not rated for consistency). Apparently one day against Fitzroy he played centre half back and had 48 kicks and kicked 2 goals in a winning side. The Sporting Globe had a headline "Clegg defeats Fitzroy".

[Bloods05]

Fair point , and if the games was played differently then he must have had amazing ball sense. What do you mean by " a variety of soccer player". How was the midfield play different ?

I mean that they weren't called midfielders then. The term was only used in soccer.

[Scottee]

All fair points, except for the one about forwards versus midfielders. Skilton played his whole career as a rover, when midfielders were a variety of soccer player, and when rovers were heavily dependent on their ruckman. It was a different game then. With the exception of a couple of brief exceptions in the form of Ken Boyd and Fred Way, Skilton played throughout to a losing ruck. He also managed to garner three Brownlow votes many, many times in losing teams, something that is almost unheard of in today's game.

He didn't always played to a losing ruck. He had some exceptional rucks in the 1950s and early 60s (Jim Taylor, all Australian, twice B&F in 53 and 57 and Frank Johnson once B&F over Skilton in 1961). The ruck stocks dried up a bit later in the 1960s as you say, except for Boyd and Way. But he was amazingly capable when the rucks were not so good.

[Blood Fever]

He didn't always played to a losing ruck. He had some exceptional rucks in the 1950s and early 60s (Jim Taylor, all Australian, twice B&F in 53 and 57 and Frank Johnson once B&F over Skilton in 1961). The ruck stocks dried up a bit later in the 1960s as you say, except for Boyd and Way. But he was amazingly capable when the rucks were not so good.

Good call on Frank Johnson who came over from Port Melbourne late in his career. South and Port were hostile to each other. Peter Bedford came over without a clearance and we may have missed out on a number of good players who chose, or were encouraged strongly to stay at Port.

[Bloods05]

Good call on Frank Johnson who came over from Port Melbourne late in his career. South and Port were hostile to each other. Peter Bedford came over without a clearance and we may have missed out on a number of good players who chose, or were encouraged strongly to stay at Port.

Frank Johnson was great. One of the few players ever to be selected as an All-Australian while still playing in the VFA. But he didn't have a long career with the Swans, and Skilts had to battle on playing to a losing ruck again when he retired.

[Doctor J.]

Our two greatest players are in this photo......but the greatest stands alone (see what I did there?).

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...cc571bec1048e7

Absolutely love this photo.

[Doctor J.]

I know the original post is greatest ever, but that is so hard to pin down. The club has been going since 1874, and whilst I can't remember anyone pre about 1967, I'm sure there must be some, so its really about the greatest ever player that we can remember.

I'd like to break it down into 3 categories.

The greatest ever South Melbourne player: Bob Skilton - daylight - Peter Bedford.
The greatest ever Sydney player: Adam Goodes, closely followed by Lockett and Franklin
The greatest ever captain of the club: Paul Kelly.

As I said, that's only from my memory, so apologies to Laurie Nash, Bob Pratt, Herb Matthews etc. I never saw you guys play.

[KTigers]

It's hard for me to consider players I never actually saw play. So I'd say in the Sydney "era", Plugger, Adam, Kelly, Buddy & JPK in that order.
Just a pity Plugger and Buddy spent so much of their careers at lesser clubs. Most under rated ; Barry Hall.